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[Music]

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[Applause]

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bespoke radio for the masses headlining

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july 8th 1947

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the army air forces has announced that a

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flying disc has been found and is now in

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the possession of the army if the game

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is rigged change the game

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game changer

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i occasionally think how quickly

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our differences worldwide

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would vanish

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if we were facing an alien threat from

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this is fade to black with your host

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jimmy church on the game changer radio

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network and kgra the global radio

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i need your help to get to the year

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[Music]

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you're listening to fate to black with

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jimmy judge on the game changer network

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[Music]

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payton black

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bespoke radio

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for

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masses

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i'm in a great mood today's wednesday

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june 19

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2019

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[Music]

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169 days into the new year just 196 days

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left we are live from a bunker

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somewhere in the middle of beautiful

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downtown burbank california

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and i would like to welcome everybody

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listening all around the world all

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across the united states

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hither and tither to and fro back and

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forth up and down east and west

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far and near

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this is fade to black

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for kjcr the game changer network and

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ktra the planets

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i'm yours jimmy church what is cracking

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everybody how you doing

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what a week on the show

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[Music]

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we we had a we had a very big show that

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we did on monday night with dr steven

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greer

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and

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having him uh

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speak and converse in such a way about

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these documents that were leaked uh

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between eric davis and uh thomas wilson

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rear admiral

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that was a very big deal and and i

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really enjoyed the conversation trying

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to

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really wrap my head around uh what is

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going on

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tonight it is grand cameron because last

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week

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a major document leak was exposed to the

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ufo community

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the documents contained a transcript of

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a conversation between eric davis and

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rear admiral thomas wilson that took

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place in a car behind the eg building of

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all places in las vegas the documents

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were originally sent to researcher and

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author grant cameron who is with us

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tonight at the beginning of 2019.

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now tonight we're going to be discussing

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not only those documents but other

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documents that

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grant has released this week and we're

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going to discuss all of them their

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history who sent them who leaked them

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and what they could mean to the world

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grant cameron has been a ufo researcher

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since 1975 and was recognized as both

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the leads conference international

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researcher of the year and the ufo

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congress researcher of the year he is a

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world renowned expert on ufo's

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conspiracy's government cover-ups and

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has spent decades watching and

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chronicling developments around the

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extraterrestrial contact he is the

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author of charlie red star his

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website of course is beyond presidential

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ufo.com the links are over at

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jimmychurchradio.com

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and i would like to welcome to fade to

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black

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grant cameron grant welcome to the show

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how are you man

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good jimmy church just doing fine

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how okay hey hey grant

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let's just let's just talk his friends

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for a second sure you feeling pretty

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good

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has the pressure

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uh

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come off you somewhat

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um well actually no not really but i

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mean it's uh it is what it is i mean

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it's uh i didn't i mean this is only one

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of the only interviews i'm gonna do

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i'd rather sort of stay in the

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background on this and but it is what it

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is and um we'll see where it goes well

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uh

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you

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talked about this back in february and

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the look on your face and at that time

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uh

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i was trying to add a little brevity to

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the situation

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you know me being the doofus that i am

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yeah but it it obviously didn't work uh

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your

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understand why

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but compared to where you were in

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february to today is there some relief

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um yeah the bed the bad part um was

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about the time maybe a little the time

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of uh expo when we met in in los angeles

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in february

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and for about um

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maybe a month and a half after that i

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really didn't sleep very much and that

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that's what what really sort of broke

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this thing for me because actually

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i was approached in

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the beginning of november

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of

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that's where this thing actually starts

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and it starts at um the conference the

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paula herrera conference the star works

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usa conference

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and it was a very bizarre conference and

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as most people know i've

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i've done

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three books on this disclosure stuff but

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i really

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it's not my favorite subject to do i'm

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into

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um consciousness and uh portals and a

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ports and all this

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is sort of i think where the ufo stuff's

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actually going to end up in terms of

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what are we really dealing with and when

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i was at the um star works conference i

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had given a lecture on a ports and this

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sort of ties into the metal that to the

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stars is looking at and jacques vales

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looked at and the canadian government

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looked at back in the 1950s these little

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pieces of metal and i had sort of gotten

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the idea that these little pieces of

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metal aren't pieces that are falling off

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the flying saucers they're actually

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stuff that's being dropped and this is

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what's called a ports in paranor in

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paranormal or like

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mediums physical mediums do this kind of

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stuff a lot of experiences i've found

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have all these support things these

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things appear they drop in the in the

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room around them and stuff like that

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so

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when the conference was going on i was i

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was sort of really excited i was giving

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this lecture about the the various

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support things and all the

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synchronicities and this very bizarre

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thing started with the feathers it was

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this i don't know if you've heard this

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bizarre story but there was about

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better than a dozen incidents with

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feathers 12 witnesses these feathers

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kept reappearing these bizarre stories

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of

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and it extended on

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to

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tucson arizona where it went right after

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the conference but anyway so i i was

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kind of excited and what had happened

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was i had friends uh trish and uh

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um justin who had uh said that we could

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use their house in my assistant desta

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barnaby and i were able to use their big

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house in tucson arizona they were going

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on a cruise they were at the conference

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and so they had actually left early um

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to go to tucson and they had said

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we're gonna make dinner for you and

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um so we had arranged dust and i had a

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range we were gonna leave the hotel the

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aquarius hotel at 11 o'clock in the

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morning and um i had gone at 10 o'clock

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to move my stuff to the to the car and

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it's you know what it's like at a

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conference you give me you take 10 steps

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you talk to somebody another 10 steps

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and somebody else stops you and it took

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me an hour to take my luggage to the to

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the car so when i got back to the front

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uh door it was time to go it was 11

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o'clock

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and that is when my assistant desta came

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up and she was a little upset she said

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i've been trying to get a hold of you

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since 10 o'clock we have this meeting it

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was supposed to take place in the

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restaurant and james wants to talk to

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you and i'm going what are you talking i

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didn't have any internet coverage

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because in in i'm from canada so we

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turned the phones off and you only use

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the the wi-fi so there's no wi-fi on the

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main floor of the casino so anyway it

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was sort of

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heated and then paula harris comes down

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with his feather shirt on and it was

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just it was just really weird and it was

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at that point she said well we had this

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meeting set with james he needs to talk

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to you he's got into something important

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he wants to talk to you this is james

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rigney who's from australia and i had

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gotten to know him and i actually was um

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had sort of set up that he i asked him

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to help me with this famous australian

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case where this ufo lands in behind the

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school and there's like 100 whatever

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kids around this ufo and stuff and i was

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going to do a book because there's a lot

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of these cases where

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ufos will land in schoolyards in front

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of huge numbers of kids and so i wanted

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to set that up so i had known him and so

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then along comes james and he tells me

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this bizarre story is you know i'm into

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the download thing i did the music

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download book how many songs come in

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dreams and spontaneously and all this

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kind of stuff and james starts telling

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me this story he said

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i woke up in the middle of the night and

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he said i had i just got this idea that

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i had this document that i needed to

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show you and i said well that's pretty

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cool and he said i contacted my wife

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back in australia and i told her scan

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these documents and send them to me and

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i'm going to show them i'm going to the

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document it was one document show it the

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grant

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okay key key thing here was for me

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is the word scan

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so

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he had the paper versions

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of the documents yeah he had well he had

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photocopies of the document my

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understanding i mean you'd have to talk

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to him i i i can only really talk what

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happened when i got the document because

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i've sort of screwed up the beginning

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part of the story as to what happened so

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i'm really not going to go too much into

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what happened at that end and how they

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did it i wasn't there i can just tell

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you what happened starting in november

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okay but that's that's what he told me

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that that he had gotten he'd got this

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scanned his sent them to him and so then

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i said well james i really don't have

280
00:10:59,509 --> 00:10:58,079
time i'm leaving because the thing was

281
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:59,519
they were going to make dinner for us in

282
00:11:01,750 --> 00:11:00,399
tucson

283
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:01,760
and i knew i couldn't sit around for

284
00:11:04,630 --> 00:11:03,600
another hour two hours to talk to people

285
00:11:06,069 --> 00:11:04,640
because

286
00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:06,079
we'd be rolling into tucson about

287
00:11:09,030 --> 00:11:07,440
midnight and they would have the dinner

288
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:09,040
ready at about five o'clock so right i

289
00:11:12,310 --> 00:11:10,720
said well i gotta go james i really

290
00:11:14,069 --> 00:11:12,320
can't talk to you he said i got this

291
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:14,079
document i want to show you i said well

292
00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:15,839
james just send it to me and i'll take a

293
00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:17,040
look at he said

294
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:19,760
give me ten minutes and i said okay

295
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:21,839
whatever so i said what do you got so

296
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:23,279
then he sits down beside me and he's got

297
00:11:31,750 --> 00:11:24,720
this ipad

298
00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:31,760
this the the wilson uh document

299
00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:34,959
and i looked at it and i noticed i i and

300
00:11:38,389 --> 00:11:36,959
i this is kind of strange you'll you'll

301
00:11:39,750 --> 00:11:38,399
have a hard time believing this but i

302
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:39,760
really haven't read the document i read

303
00:11:45,110 --> 00:11:42,880
the first page and i and i immediately

304
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:45,120
the first thing i noticed was

305
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:46,720
the name oak shannon

306
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:48,480
now i know who oak shannon was almost

307
00:11:52,550 --> 00:11:50,240
nobody in the ufo community even that to

308
00:11:54,310 --> 00:11:52,560
this day know whose oak shannon is and

309
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:54,320
the reason i know who oak shannon is is

310
00:11:58,230 --> 00:11:56,399
because i've got oak o'shannon's notes

311
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:58,240
from the advanced physics theoretical

312
00:12:01,990 --> 00:12:00,240
working group that john alexander ran in

313
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:02,000
the mid-1980s

314
00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:03,440
i was actually the one that gave the

315
00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:06,959
name out at a conference in in

316
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:09,760
eureka springs back about 20 years ago

317
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:12,320
and um because i had these notes

318
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:13,680
and i knew it was the advanced physics

319
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:16,079
theoretical working group i had had oak

320
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:18,000
shannon's notes and i knew that he was

321
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:19,040
related to

322
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:21,040
eric davis so i saw eric davis notes i

323
00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:23,519
saw oak shannon and i'm starting to read

324
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:25,680
this thing and then i i it's sort of

325
00:12:27,750 --> 00:12:26,480
like

326
00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:27,760
where it really

327
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:30,880
sort of got me going was i read mj-12

328
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:33,440
that this is confirmation of mj-12

329
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:35,360
and as people know i i

330
00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:37,040
have been working on the mj-12 thing

331
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:38,399
since the 1980s

332
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:40,160
and it started for us with dr eric

333
00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:41,519
walker who was the former president of

334
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:43,760
the penn state university at 14 honorary

335
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:45,200
doctorate degrees

336
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:47,200
and we approached him with the leaked

337
00:12:51,910 --> 00:12:50,160
mj-12 document like days after it was

338
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:51,920
dropped by bill moore and by tim good

339
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:54,240
and the great britain and at a

340
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,399
researcher from actually from l.a bill

341
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,320
steinman actually confronted him he said

342
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:00,399
i've got this document about mj12 and

343
00:13:04,949 --> 00:13:02,560
walker cuts them off he says look i've

344
00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:04,959
known of them for 40 years

345
00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:06,639
leave it alone there's nothing you can

346
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:08,000
do about it you're up against the

347
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:10,320
windmill you're wasting your time so

348
00:13:15,990 --> 00:13:13,600
from 1987 on i immediately knew that

349
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:16,000
this mj 12 thing was real and that they

350
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:17,760
had altered the documents they had made

351
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:19,360
this sort of plausible deniability

352
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:21,040
they've altered different things but

353
00:13:24,790 --> 00:13:22,880
that the story of mj 12 was basically

354
00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:24,800
real all the documents were were altered

355
00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:27,200
and phony but the thing was real so when

356
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:29,360
i saw the mj-12 it was like

357
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,279
waving a red flag in front of a bull i

358
00:13:35,509 --> 00:13:33,120
was just furious i think because i saw

359
00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:35,519
the date whatever is 2001 2002 and i'm

360
00:13:40,790 --> 00:13:38,800
going they knew back then that this was

361
00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:40,800
for real and i was getting sort of

362
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:42,480
crucified by a bunch of people like oh

363
00:13:46,790 --> 00:13:44,000
grant's having a bad day still believes

364
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:46,800
this richard doty mj12 it's all nonsense

365
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:48,560
it had this guy you know wake up and

366
00:13:53,430 --> 00:13:50,800
smell the smell of coffee

367
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,440
and so when i saw that i went man we

368
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:55,519
were getting crucified since then and

369
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:57,040
nobody came to our defense nobody came

370
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:58,320
and said oh grant's right this is

371
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:00,240
actually for real and that really sort

372
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:02,480
of got me and so then i said to james

373
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:05,120
once i saw the mj-12 and i saw uh oak

374
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:08,800
shannon's name and eric davis i realized

375
00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:09,760
that

376
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:12,480
in 1975 i'd had the ufo settings had a

377
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:14,880
number of close encounters i had and i'd

378
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:16,480
gone to this town and i'd interviewed

379
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:18,480
all these people and i did this book and

380
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:19,760
i thought man i've i've sort of

381
00:14:23,430 --> 00:14:22,079
discovered that the

382
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:23,440
sort of the the biggest story of all

383
00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:25,600
times and the publisher said mr cameron

384
00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:26,880
you may believe in this kind of stuff

385
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:28,720
count me among the unbelievers and i was

386
00:14:33,269 --> 00:14:32,160
just horrified and this is like 1966 76

387
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:33,279
77

388
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:34,880
and from that time on all i was

389
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:37,120
interested in was

390
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,199
somebody's got to know what i saw

391
00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:41,360
i'm just this little guy from canada

392
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:42,959
somebody has to know what's going on

393
00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:45,600
here so my entire career has been based

394
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:47,279
upon answering that one question i don't

395
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:49,199
care about sightings i don't care about

396
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:50,480
really anything i'm just trying to find

397
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:53,120
out who knows what the heck's going on

398
00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:54,560
that's why i chased the president that's

399
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:56,800
why i chased ron pandolfi from the cia i

400
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:58,240
was looking for these high-level people

401
00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:00,240
somebody's got to know so when i saw

402
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:02,000
that document on that monday the first

403
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:04,160
monday of november i looked at it and i

404
00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:05,519
realized

405
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:07,440
oh my god this is what i've been waiting

406
00:15:12,550 --> 00:15:10,800
for for seven since 1975. this is it

407
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:12,560
this is the sort of the ultimate thing

408
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:15,040
and that's when i said to him i said

409
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:17,839
where the heck did you get this

410
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:19,920
and he really didn't seem significant

411
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:21,600
that's when he brought up edgar mitchell

412
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:23,680
that this came from

413
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:25,920
mitchell's files and it made all total

414
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:28,639
sense to me i went wow i said

415
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:30,720
can i get a copy of this thing and he

416
00:15:33,750 --> 00:15:32,639
was kind of hesitant because he's in he

417
00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:33,760
said i don't know how to mail him i

418
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:35,120
don't want to put him through the mail

419
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:36,880
or whatever and i'm saying and then he

420
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:39,120
left and he actually had moved and i

421
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:40,079
thought well maybe i should photograph

422
00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:41,040
this thing because maybe i'm going to

423
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:43,279
get copied right right right right and i

424
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:44,720
realized this was the most significant

425
00:15:48,069 --> 00:15:46,399
that's what i said to him i said this is

426
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:48,079
the most significant thing i've ever

427
00:15:51,509 --> 00:15:50,000
seen in my life and i remember i've only

428
00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:51,519
read the first page and a half of this

429
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:53,600
thing but what i saw in that was sort of

430
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:56,399
like wow this was just unbelievable

431
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:59,040
and so that's how it ended he left i

432
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,519
didn't get a copy of the document and i

433
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:03,360
thought the document at that point was

434
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:05,440
only maybe three four pages long or

435
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:07,279
whatever and then i started making

436
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:08,959
arrangements and i said to him i said

437
00:16:13,749 --> 00:16:11,120
well james i have i had written the book

438
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:13,759
called beyon um um

439
00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:15,920
managing magic which was written about

440
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:17,440
eight months before tom delonge before

441
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:20,240
to the stars actually went public and i

442
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:21,600
told the whole story so i was doing

443
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:22,399
beyond

444
00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:23,199
uh

445
00:16:26,949 --> 00:16:25,120
managing magic and i was going to sort

446
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:26,959
of update it and describe things that

447
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:28,160
have happened since then and all this

448
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:30,160
kind of stuff and so i said to james i

449
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:32,399
said james how about if you get me that

450
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:33,839
document and i'll just stick it in the

451
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:35,120
end of the book

452
00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:36,399
and i won't say anything about it i just

453
00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:38,000
put the document in the book i won't put

454
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:39,680
a chapter or nothing i just put it there

455
00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:41,199
and somebody's going to notice this

456
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:43,120
document and all hell's going to break

457
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:44,000
loose

458
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:46,399
so he said yeah okay i think i can do

459
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:47,519
that and then there was this thing how i

460
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:49,040
was going to send the document over and

461
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:51,120
then he sends me the document and that's

462
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:52,959
when the panic started to break out

463
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:54,959
because then i saw this 15 pages that's

464
00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:56,000
why i didn't really read it i read the

465
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:57,440
first couple of pages i went i didn't

466
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:59,040
realize it was this long and all this

467
00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:01,519
detail and i'm going oh my goodness it's

468
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:03,279
like and that's why i say to people

469
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:05,839
because people will be critical of what

470
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:08,160
i did how i did it or whatever but i got

471
00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:10,240
i always got to say to people

472
00:17:15,029 --> 00:17:13,120
imagine that you were me and someone

473
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:15,039
handed you that document after you've

474
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:17,199
waited your entire life for this what

475
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:18,640
are you going to do are you going to

476
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:20,720
pretend you didn't see it are you going

477
00:17:25,669 --> 00:17:23,760
to uh sort of just you know

478
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,679
go along with the cover up i said i've

479
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:27,600
waited for this my whole life and yet

480
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:30,320
when i saw the 15 pages i went

481
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:31,520
and i knew all these people you gotta

482
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:33,360
remember i i've been in this game i

483
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:36,320
wrote about the avery back in 1991 in my

484
00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:37,919
first book i've known these guys for a

485
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:39,280
long time and i've sort of interacted

486
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:40,720
with them and then they sort of cut me

487
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:43,039
off because i've got a big mouth but

488
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:44,799
i've i know who all these people are and

489
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:46,960
i'm thinking oh my goodness i i don't

490
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:48,640
know if i can drop this thing i mean and

491
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:50,000
and that's why i started to panic and

492
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,240
that was i guess would be about

493
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:54,480
mid-january so when i saw you i was kind

494
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:57,039
of i was kind of on edge and i was still

495
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:58,160
going to do it i'm still going to put in

496
00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:00,640
the book but what i had done is i as you

497
00:18:05,830 --> 00:18:03,760
know you met my uh my lawyer

498
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:05,840
michael hall and i had gone to a number

499
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:06,880
of people because i didn't know what to

500
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,720
do and i was contacting everybody and i

501
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:10,400
was saying i've got this problem i got

502
00:18:13,350 --> 00:18:12,080
this thing what am i going to do and i'm

503
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:13,360
getting advice from people i tried to

504
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:14,720
get ahold of danny sheen i couldn't get

505
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:16,640
a hold of danny sheehan and i talked to

506
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:19,600
michael and michael was very clear and

507
00:18:21,669 --> 00:18:20,480
and he

508
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:21,679
you know because i figured i mean we

509
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:23,200
could be a lawsuit here could be also

510
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:24,720
who knows what's going to happen here

511
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:27,120
and he said well i'll defend you i'll

512
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:29,360
i'll whatever happens we'll go into

513
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:30,799
discovery if this gets things up in

514
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:32,640
court or whatever happens i'm here for

515
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:34,640
you i'm gonna back you then i sort of

516
00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:37,120
felt better and then he said to me

517
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:38,720
he said well do you know for a fact that

518
00:18:42,789 --> 00:18:40,799
these documents are real

519
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:42,799
and i said

520
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:45,840
yeah you're right i said like i'm 90

521
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,320
sure but i don't really know i mean i

522
00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:50,480
sort of trust james and i it dolls you

523
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:52,160
know there was no problems in the

524
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:53,919
document that i saw and because it had

525
00:18:58,470 --> 00:18:56,400
this oak shannon and the mj-12 and and

526
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:58,480
i'd known eric i knew eric davis was

527
00:19:02,549 --> 00:19:00,799
good friends with oak shannon so i said

528
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:02,559
yeah i don't so that's when i planned

529
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:04,320
and i got my assistant destin we had a

530
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:05,679
meeting so i said destiny we have a

531
00:19:09,750 --> 00:19:08,320
meeting here so i got desta and i and

532
00:19:11,909 --> 00:19:09,760
then he sent me the second document i

533
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:11,919
got to put that in he sends me the

534
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:13,760
alien autopsy document and then i mean

535
00:19:17,350 --> 00:19:15,840
just total panic city it's like oh my

536
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:17,360
goodness and it's like and then i heard

537
00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:19,039
there was more documents and i'm going

538
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:21,520
oh and i'm thinking like why did i you

539
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:24,640
know it was like this was my my chance

540
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:26,400
is what i'd waited for but then i

541
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:27,760
couldn't do it it's like i didn't know

542
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:29,679
what to do and so then i had a meeting

543
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:31,200
with desta and i said well that's that

544
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:32,960
you know i really don't know for for a

545
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:34,160
fact that these things are real so

546
00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:36,000
here's what we're going to do and i said

547
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:38,000
here's the documents i photocopied them

548
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:40,080
all i gave them to her we met here in

549
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:42,000
winnipeg and i said you get a black belt

550
00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:43,760
marker i said here we go we're going to

551
00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:44,960
sanitize these documents we're going to

552
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:46,640
take all the names out of the document

553
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:47,840
and i'm going to do the same thing that

554
00:19:52,029 --> 00:19:50,080
the government has maintained has done

555
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:52,039
right from word go right from

556
00:19:56,310 --> 00:19:54,400
1974 they started this thing that i know

557
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:56,320
of and that's this plausible deniability

558
00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:57,840
thing so you put it out and it's

559
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:59,760
plausible deniability so i said we'll

560
00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:01,200
take all the names out of it and we'll

561
00:20:05,590 --> 00:20:03,440
put it in the book and we'll we'll drop

562
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:05,600
it that way and then all the people like

563
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:06,640
eric davis all those people have

564
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:08,240
plausible diability it's not like i'm

565
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:09,600
cutting their throat or anything and

566
00:20:12,789 --> 00:20:11,200
i'll put it out like that

567
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:12,799
but even then i still couldn't sleep so

568
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:14,000
i went for a period of about three

569
00:20:18,150 --> 00:20:15,840
months where i really didn't sleep very

570
00:20:20,789 --> 00:20:18,160
much and i was like totally panicked and

571
00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:20,799
i was talking to people and then the way

572
00:20:24,789 --> 00:20:22,720
it came out because i i went back to

573
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:24,799
james we i got a meeting with desta we

574
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:26,720
went on a zoom conference with with

575
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:29,280
james it was a long meeting and i said

576
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:30,400
james

577
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:34,720
and i said you're the guy

578
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,720
i mean you have anonymity nobody knows

579
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:39,039
who you are uh you can drop this

580
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:41,760
document to a whole series of people i

581
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:43,120
said you've got to find somebody who's

582
00:20:46,149 --> 00:20:44,480
not compromised because that was the

583
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:46,159
problem i was compromised because i knew

584
00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:47,919
all these people are so he suggested

585
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:49,120
well i'll send it to richard dolan i

586
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:50,799
said well richard's the same as me he's

587
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:52,240
compromised he knows all these guys too

588
00:20:55,990 --> 00:20:53,919
i mean i i couldn't see that richard was

589
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:56,000
going to drop this document because you

590
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:57,840
know that's the problem is

591
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,679
you know once it

592
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:01,520
once you do it nobody ever talks to you

593
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:02,480
again

594
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:04,480
and i remember it actually dropped not

595
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:06,080
last week it actually dropped in in the

596
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:08,640
beginning in in the beginning of april

597
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:10,559
right and i remem and i remember what

598
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:12,640
had happened was i talked to a series of

599
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:14,640
people number of people asking

600
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:16,960
and one particular group i was talking

601
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:18,960
to and i said i was talking about this

602
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:20,799
and there was some pretty high-level

603
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:23,039
people in there and then they basically

604
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:23,840
said

605
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:28,000
and so then suddenly i get a phone call

606
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:31,679
in april from james uh ian dawley who's

607
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:33,600
one of the i call him the the young gun

608
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:35,919
guys and he said danny silva's got this

609
00:21:39,270 --> 00:21:38,000
document and you talked to me about this

610
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:39,280
document and it sounds like the same

611
00:21:43,110 --> 00:21:40,799
document and i went

612
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:43,120
so how many pages is it he said it's 15

613
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:45,200
i said yeah that kind of sounds like the

614
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:46,799
document

615
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:48,720
right right and then i said well you

616
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:50,559
tell danny silva i said you know you got

617
00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:52,480
the document now and you got the choice

618
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:53,600
you can be the most famous person in the

619
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:54,880
world you drop this thing but nobody's

620
00:21:57,270 --> 00:21:55,760
ever going to talk to you again because

621
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:57,280
they were all talking to eric davis and

622
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:58,080
all these

623
00:22:01,990 --> 00:21:59,919
people as well and i kept warning these

624
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:02,000
guys i said you've got and i re i'm this

625
00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:04,320
mistake i i realized i had made and you

626
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:06,159
have the same problem is that you get to

627
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:07,840
know these people

628
00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:10,080
and then when it comes you get something

629
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:11,200
on them like what are you gonna do with

630
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:12,960
it i remember you had a conversation

631
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:14,960
with with bob kibiat and i remember the

632
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:17,200
conversation of jim semivan came up now

633
00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:18,720
jim semivan i didn't know but that's the

634
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:20,240
thing is so you have this contact with

635
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:22,080
jim semivan three years ago and then

636
00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:23,919
suddenly kiviat finds out and he says

637
00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:25,760
well what do you know about jim simvan

638
00:22:29,110 --> 00:22:27,600
when you talk to him and suddenly you've

639
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:29,120
got this thing where suddenly you're

640
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:30,880
you've got to bob and weave because you

641
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:32,240
really don't want to give up where you

642
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:33,440
talk to him how you talk to him and

643
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,640
stuff like that that's right and that

644
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:36,080
was that was the problem i was in it was

645
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:38,080
this this and so i warned the young gun

646
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:39,760
guys and all these people i said you've

647
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:41,679
got to stay removed from the people that

648
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:43,360
you're investigating if you start

649
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:44,880
talking to them and making deals with

650
00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:46,640
them and

651
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:48,400
and i've got an um

652
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:49,760
i had a book i was going to do the

653
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:51,360
beyond managing magic that's what this

654
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:53,440
book was going to drop and then i pulled

655
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:54,720
the book and i said to james i pulled

656
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:56,000
the book i'm not going to put the book

657
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:57,840
out uh i'm not going to drop the

658
00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:59,360
document you've got to find somebody

659
00:23:02,149 --> 00:23:00,720
who's not compromised who doesn't know

660
00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:02,159
what this is this is your problem this

661
00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:04,000
is not my problem i know i just can't do

662
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:04,720
it

663
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:06,720
right right right and he actually had

664
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:08,640
this famous expression he said your life

665
00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:09,840
would have been a lot simpler if you

666
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:11,280
left the hotel 10 minutes earlier and i

667
00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:12,720
said you could write on that one yeah

668
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:14,320
you're right and well let me tell you

669
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:16,880
what happened on this end and and i

670
00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:18,480
think richard

671
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:22,400
uh was in my camp too as well on this

672
00:23:28,230 --> 00:23:25,520
is that when i was sent the documents

673
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:28,240
which i don't clearly remember but it

674
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:30,799
was a month month and a half ago i guess

675
00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:32,960
it could have been it were in june so

676
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:34,640
may april

677
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:37,760
um i i got the email but there wasn't

678
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:40,320
anything there but a link

679
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:43,200
and i don't click on links i i don't do

680
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:44,400
it and

681
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:46,480
for some reason and the same thing

682
00:23:51,590 --> 00:23:49,120
happened to richard he almost didn't

683
00:23:54,390 --> 00:23:51,600
click on it either for the same reasons

684
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:54,400
and i get a lot of stuff all the time so

685
00:24:00,390 --> 00:23:57,200
i i for some reason i clicked on it and

686
00:24:02,470 --> 00:24:00,400
i went and i read the first page and

687
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:02,480
this is what i did grant i went ah man

688
00:24:07,590 --> 00:24:04,720
this is too good to be true this is just

689
00:24:08,310 --> 00:24:07,600
this is just no no no no

690
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:08,320
and

691
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:11,760
i closed the email i didn't read through

692
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:14,400
everything i read the first page i went

693
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:16,080
right well anyway

694
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:18,240
um and then i was sent everything later

695
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:20,559
and when i got everything later i went i

696
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:23,360
remember that okay and then i went and

697
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:26,559
read through it and made it to page 15

698
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:30,000
and had that holy crap moment okay

699
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:32,320
there's something here but i didn't act

700
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:33,279
on it

701
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:38,240
half as a matter of fact uh grant i went

702
00:24:44,870 --> 00:24:41,440
back trying to find

703
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:44,880
uh the email and i clean out my email

704
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:47,440
you know i get hundreds every single day

705
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:50,000
and i think i deleted it

706
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:52,320
you know it was some innocuous thing

707
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:53,919
with some crazy

708
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:56,320
uh email address and server

709
00:25:01,669 --> 00:24:59,200
and uh there's nothing in the title

710
00:25:04,149 --> 00:25:01,679
right so it's not like i can search

711
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:04,159
you know leak the documents

712
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:07,039
um but anyway that's what happened to me

713
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:08,720
and uh

714
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:10,960
it uh it would probably would have

715
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:12,320
broken earlier because i would have

716
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:13,520
called richard

717
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:16,080
and and said okay let's let's let's what

718
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:17,840
have you got this is what i got let's

719
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:19,360
let's talk about this

720
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:21,760
and uh we could have acted on this

721
00:25:25,990 --> 00:25:23,840
sooner part of the

722
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:26,000
part of the criticism on all of this

723
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:27,840
which is what i want to discuss after

724
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:28,960
the break

725
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:32,400
is that you sat on this since january

726
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:34,880
and and here we are in june talking

727
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:37,679
about it why did you wait so long you

728
00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:40,320
kind of explained some of it here i want

729
00:25:44,549 --> 00:25:42,960
to get into it in depth but did you

730
00:25:47,669 --> 00:25:44,559
immediately

731
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:47,679
uh start to vet the chain of custody

732
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:50,880
here did you ask james who gave it to

733
00:25:54,149 --> 00:25:52,640
him

734
00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:54,159
well right at the beginning i that's the

735
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:55,840
first question i said to him i said

736
00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:58,320
where did you get this from and that's

737
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:59,919
when he mentioned from

738
00:26:02,470 --> 00:26:01,360
it came from edgar mitchell's files and

739
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:02,480
then i really didn't ask him because it

740
00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:04,320
made total sense to me i said oh okay

741
00:26:06,950 --> 00:26:05,760
that makes sense that's that's where

742
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:06,960
this is coming around because i knew

743
00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:08,320
that edgar mitchell's had sat on the

744
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:10,480
board of nids and i knew that that eric

745
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:11,760
davis was the

746
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:14,080
i talked to davis back when this when

747
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:16,480
nids was going on right um because he

748
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,320
was the chief scientist there and he

749
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:20,480
would tell me this you know one big long

750
00:26:23,269 --> 00:26:21,760
conversation i had with him he's telling

751
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:23,279
me about you know interacting with the

752
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:25,039
avery and that was my big thing is all

753
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,679
these guys have gone cycled through all

754
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:29,520
these different programs so bill moore

755
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:31,600
through john alexander's group through

756
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:34,880
nids through uh firmage's group through

757
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:36,960
bass it's the same group of people it's

758
00:26:42,789 --> 00:26:39,360
alexander it's uh hal put off it's kid

759
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:42,799
greek kid green it's and and eric davis

760
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:44,480
is sort of the young guy he came in sort

761
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:45,520
of later

762
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:48,480
but i knew the link so when he said

763
00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:50,240
edgar mitchell i'm going oh okay because

764
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:52,799
i i realized that this was probably a

765
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,559
report that that had been done for nids

766
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:58,799
and it was that eric davis was putting

767
00:27:01,990 --> 00:27:00,480
this in so it may and i really didn't

768
00:27:03,029 --> 00:27:02,000
ask anything more after that i just i

769
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:03,039
was just trying to figure out how am i

770
00:27:05,830 --> 00:27:04,159
going to get this document how am i

771
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:05,840
going to you know i was thinking like

772
00:27:09,909 --> 00:27:07,760
wow this is what i've been waiting for

773
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:09,919
and james was kind of reluctant at first

774
00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:11,279
and it wasn't reluctant to give the

775
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:12,880
document because he was actually looking

776
00:27:17,110 --> 00:27:15,360
for someone to move this document he was

777
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:17,120
more worried about you know how do you

778
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:19,200
move it and you know

779
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:21,600
all this kind of stuff he was who

780
00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:24,080
uh grant if i if i can we've got two

781
00:27:30,310 --> 00:27:25,760
minutes before the break

782
00:27:33,029 --> 00:27:30,320
who is the caretaker of mitchell's files

783
00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:33,039
is that person willing to come forward

784
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:34,559
no that's where i've sort of messed up

785
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:35,360
and that's where i'm going to stop

786
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:37,200
talking because apparently i messed up i

787
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:38,720
did an interview two days ago and i sort

788
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:40,640
of messed that part of the story up so

789
00:27:45,029 --> 00:27:42,559
i'm now only going to talk about what

790
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:45,039
happened once i saw the document but

791
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:46,960
i was told the story but i've somehow

792
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:49,120
got it messed up as to exactly what it

793
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:50,480
was or whatever

794
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:53,840
um so you misspoke

795
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:56,159
well i misspoke but i sort of overstated

796
00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:57,600
what i had heard i thought i heard

797
00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:00,240
something and i didn't hear any uh the

798
00:28:04,470 --> 00:28:03,039
story was it wasn't it it was different

799
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:04,480
than what you're saying why did you say

800
00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:06,880
this why do you say that so i i that's

801
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:08,799
where i'm going to say i i can tell you

802
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:10,559
exactly what happens on that monday

803
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:12,640
morning at 11 o'clock when i saw that

804
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:14,240
document and what happened after that

805
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:15,760
before then i wasn't i wasn't on the

806
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:17,520
scene i really don't i've heard this

807
00:28:21,669 --> 00:28:18,960
story i just

808
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:21,679
okay no from november i said where did

809
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:24,080
this come from and it was edgar mitchell

810
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:26,240
and i realized he was on nids and that

811
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,240
that davis was on nids and all these

812
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:30,240
players were were involved in this and

813
00:28:34,630 --> 00:28:32,640
it made total sense to me certainly and

814
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:34,640
uh so we'll just cover from november

815
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:37,039
forward what we'll cover from january

816
00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:39,360
forward how's that let's take a break

817
00:28:45,029 --> 00:28:41,520
right here our guest tonight grant

818
00:28:48,389 --> 00:28:45,039
cameron we are discussing that ufo

819
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:48,399
leaked document between eric davis and

820
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:51,200
rear admiral thomas wilson

821
00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:53,039
everything is going to come out tonight

822
00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:54,960
i am very excited about this our guest

823
00:28:58,630 --> 00:28:56,799
is grant cameron this is fade to black

824
00:29:00,870 --> 00:28:58,640
i'm your yours jimmy church

825
00:29:03,490 --> 00:29:00,880
one quick break and we'll be right back

826
00:29:10,180 --> 00:29:03,500
stay with us

827
00:29:23,830 --> 00:29:21,990
[Music]

828
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:23,840
all right welcome back fade to black i

829
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:26,320
am your host jimmy church tonight grant

830
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:28,720
cameron is here we're talking about

831
00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:31,279
the davis wilson

832
00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:35,760
ufo document leak that was exposed

833
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:39,360
to the ufo community last week certainly

834
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:42,480
huge huge news for the community grant

835
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:45,679
and as you were sitting on this document

836
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:48,640
and it starts to leak out you know that

837
00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:51,440
you have it but now it's uh

838
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:55,200
it it starts to hit the web and at that

839
00:30:00,870 --> 00:29:57,600
point uh somebody else has got the

840
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:00,880
document and and you know this do you

841
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:02,960
know who uh

842
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:05,360
put the images up on imager and do you

843
00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:08,399
know who tweeted it out

844
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:10,880
well it was put on reddit i i talked to

845
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:13,200
a lot of people and i would say i'm 90

846
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:15,760
sure i know who did it but i don't ask

847
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:17,200
they don't tell

848
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:18,640
that was that was basically a situation

849
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:20,640
i wanted i just wanted to

850
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:22,640
put it and i didn't want to be the guy

851
00:30:27,269 --> 00:30:25,360
that uh you know dropped the thing and

852
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:27,279
someone helped me out for it

853
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,200
uh but there's an interesting story that

854
00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:31,200
came up like i think i didn't i haven't

855
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:32,880
documented exactly

856
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:36,000
you know exact dates but it was dropped

857
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:38,080
i think in i i know because i got a

858
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,559
phone call from the young guns and

859
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:42,000
and it would have passed through all

860
00:30:45,669 --> 00:30:44,240
those guys instantaneously and that's

861
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:45,679
when i gave them the thing where i said

862
00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:47,679
well you know you put this thing out and

863
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:49,360
nobody's gonna talk to you anymore

864
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:51,279
and they held back so they had the

865
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:53,039
document since april they all knew it

866
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,960
was there and then it sort of died and

867
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:56,640
i'm going like you know wow this is kind

868
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:58,480
of weird it was there and i and we sort

869
00:31:01,669 --> 00:31:00,799
of assumed or i sort of assumed well

870
00:31:03,510 --> 00:31:01,679
everybody must have thought it was a

871
00:31:05,110 --> 00:31:03,520
hoax and it's just going to be like

872
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:05,120
another document because i actually had

873
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:06,720
i have other documents this is the four

874
00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:08,000
this is the fifth time this has happened

875
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:10,159
to me where i found stuff in files and

876
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:11,840
people got very furious when i released

877
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:14,240
it and some of them i have the douglas

878
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:15,679
aircraft documents which i put on a

879
00:31:20,389 --> 00:31:18,720
british website 275 pages of a half a

880
00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:20,399
million dollar study done by douglas

881
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:22,480
aircraft nobody's ever looked at that

882
00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:23,600
stuff i mean and i figured it was the

883
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:24,880
same thing oh nobody's going to pay any

884
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:26,399
attention to this but an interesting

885
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:29,120
story that did happen that involves you

886
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:31,120
i think i think i hinted at this when we

887
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:34,799
were in in um in los angeles

888
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,720
i get a phone call from james and he

889
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:38,640
says and and i have to document this

890
00:31:42,389 --> 00:31:39,600
time just the first one i haven't got

891
00:31:43,909 --> 00:31:42,399
the second document yet and he says

892
00:31:45,350 --> 00:31:43,919
did you give the did you give the

893
00:31:47,110 --> 00:31:45,360
document to dolan

894
00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:47,120
and i go no i didn't give it to dolan he

895
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:49,279
said he's on jimmy church talking about

896
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:50,240
it

897
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:53,519
he is and and i'm going he is so i he

898
00:31:57,909 --> 00:31:55,840
says okay two minutes and 15 seconds in

899
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:57,919
and it's uh you know the

900
00:32:03,350 --> 00:32:00,960
december 18th 2018 and that's where you

901
00:32:06,389 --> 00:32:03,360
ask richard the question you say richard

902
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:06,399
you ever get a document where you go oh

903
00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:08,240
my goodness and

904
00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:10,080
you you can't do anything with it and

905
00:32:13,909 --> 00:32:12,480
you saw it and you've got to just sort

906
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:13,919
of keep it to yourself whatever and then

907
00:32:17,669 --> 00:32:16,080
richard goes yeah i kind of saw one like

908
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:17,679
that and he starts describing the

909
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:19,360
document and i'm going he's talking

910
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:21,360
about the document and if i thought he

911
00:32:25,269 --> 00:32:22,880
had seen something similar i thought he

912
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:25,279
had seen sort of a earlier version or

913
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:26,640
something like that

914
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:27,440
yeah

915
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:32,240
and and that's what he is i found out

916
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:33,519
later so that made me sort of feel

917
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:36,320
better because that that fits my theory

918
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:38,000
that they're they floated the thing so i

919
00:32:40,789 --> 00:32:39,600
said you know because the thing is now

920
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:40,799
they're going to say oh this is national

921
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:42,720
security and you're risking national

922
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:44,559
security and why would you leak this and

923
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:46,480
this is terrible and all sort of stuff

924
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:48,480
well they were they were floating this

925
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:50,799
thing to to ufo researchers and richard

926
00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:53,760
in his right up lot on the weekend

927
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:55,200
i think he indicated there was a second

928
00:32:58,950 --> 00:32:57,279
person that this thing had been shown to

929
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:58,960
so they had shown it to him and then the

930
00:33:01,830 --> 00:33:00,240
other thing that was on that interview

931
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:01,840
that he did with you was the first he

932
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:03,519
talks about the document and then he

933
00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:05,360
says and so i talk and he's talking the

934
00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:06,880
same thing we're all talking the avery

935
00:33:11,350 --> 00:33:08,880
we're talking these high-level

936
00:33:13,269 --> 00:33:11,360
uh people who've got former military

937
00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:13,279
intelligence people who

938
00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:14,960
aren't a group they they aren't they

939
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:16,000
don't belong to the government or

940
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:17,919
anything they're just a bunch of people

941
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:20,080
who are set up sort of with bill moore

942
00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:21,600
bill moore like tom delong had been

943
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:23,519
given all these sources and he had been

944
00:33:26,149 --> 00:33:24,640
talking to these people gave them all

945
00:33:28,149 --> 00:33:26,159
these bird names and stuff and these

946
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:28,159
guys sort of got to know who each others

947
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:29,519
were and they could trust each other

948
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:30,960
because they had security clearances and

949
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:32,240
they're trying to figure out the same as

950
00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:34,480
you and i i just called them mj 12 2. i

951
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:36,000
said what good and i even told one of

952
00:33:39,190 --> 00:33:37,600
them one time what good is it if you

953
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:39,200
guys figure this thing out it's just 24

954
00:33:43,110 --> 00:33:41,039
guys instead of 12 guys know it's not

955
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:43,120
going to help anybody it's like guys who

956
00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:44,720
are collecting wild game animals and

957
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:46,399
they're not going to tell anybody except

958
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:48,000
and that's so they've worked for many

959
00:33:52,549 --> 00:33:49,919
years these guys so richard's talking to

960
00:33:55,269 --> 00:33:52,559
these guys as well and and so this the

961
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,279
he's he's talking he talks on your show

962
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:57,200
right after he talks about the document

963
00:34:01,350 --> 00:33:58,960
he talks about asking this one

964
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:01,360
particular avery guy

965
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:02,720
so

966
00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:05,519
do we get any bodies crafts and then the

967
00:34:09,669 --> 00:34:07,600
the guy says yeah we have one we

968
00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:09,679
actually i think it was yeah i know for

969
00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:11,760
a fact we have one body

970
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:13,280
and then richard says well how do you

971
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:14,480
know

972
00:34:16,950 --> 00:34:15,760
and he says because the source is

973
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:16,960
impeccable

974
00:34:20,310 --> 00:34:18,159
that's the second document that's the

975
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:20,320
alien autopsy document that's the one

976
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:22,399
where it's kid green he's the impeccable

977
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:24,399
source where he's backing up this thing

978
00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:26,000
and then richard contacts him after that

979
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:27,359
one dropped

980
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:28,240
and

981
00:34:31,829 --> 00:34:29,679
they they were putting this stuff out

982
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:31,839
because what happened was

983
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:34,879
lou alexander goes on on on fox

984
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:36,159
and you know you're saying well it's

985
00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:37,200
classified material you shouldn't be

986
00:34:40,149 --> 00:34:38,639
talking about this kind of stuff why did

987
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:40,159
you leak this document or whatever why'd

988
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:41,599
you put this thing out they're talking

989
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:42,960
about it people have to realize they're

990
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:44,399
putting this stuff out there so lou

991
00:34:48,550 --> 00:34:45,919
alexander goes and says

992
00:34:50,310 --> 00:34:48,560
we actually have crash saucer material

993
00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:50,320
and it's like what i mean if anything's

994
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:51,839
classified that's classified and then

995
00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:54,800
eric davis goes a day or two days later

996
00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:56,480
i don't know where it was and and makes

997
00:35:01,349 --> 00:34:57,760
this statement

998
00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:01,359
lu elizondo is 1 000 right so all the

999
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:03,280
people that i've been talking to

1000
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:04,640
including the people that i thought

1001
00:35:06,870 --> 00:35:06,160
actually dropped this thing i sent them

1002
00:35:11,349 --> 00:35:06,880
this

1003
00:35:13,670 --> 00:35:11,359
the they dropped the alien autopsy

1004
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:13,680
document onto onto the internet so

1005
00:35:15,910 --> 00:35:14,800
they've been talking about this stuff

1006
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:15,920
and they've done all this they've done

1007
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:18,160
it numerous times eric davis came out

1008
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:19,440
and said

1009
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:21,359
um that he was he was going after lazar

1010
00:35:26,790 --> 00:35:24,079
lazar is a big scam and the crash saucer

1011
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:26,800
material is not held at area 51 and we

1012
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:28,960
had a program on back engineering until

1013
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:32,240
1989 and we uh we canceled it because we

1014
00:35:35,589 --> 00:35:34,000
weren't getting anywhere and then help

1015
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:35,599
put off goes on coast to coast and he

1016
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:37,200
says you know there's actually one crash

1017
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,720
saucer document out there that's

1018
00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:40,560
actually for real it's actually a real

1019
00:35:43,750 --> 00:35:42,320
document and this is the thing they're

1020
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:43,760
leaking this they're gradually

1021
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:46,079
indirectly it's all plausible liability

1022
00:35:50,310 --> 00:35:47,839
leaking this stuff so when richard told

1023
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:50,320
this story then i really didn't feel all

1024
00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:51,680
that bad because it was like oh they've

1025
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:52,640
been leaking this thing they've been

1026
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:54,320
floating this document anyway almost

1027
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:56,400
like the nimitz thing they floated that

1028
00:36:01,910 --> 00:35:59,520
nimitz video to a german and film

1029
00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:01,920
production company in 2007 this is what

1030
00:36:05,589 --> 00:36:03,680
they do it's all plausible deniability

1031
00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:05,599
you put it out you pull it back nobody

1032
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:06,720
can prove it you put two different

1033
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:08,960
stories so you say it's advanced

1034
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:10,079
aviation

1035
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:12,079
and then you go and tell politico it's a

1036
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:12,960
dance

1037
00:36:16,950 --> 00:36:14,720
it's advanced aerospace you tell the new

1038
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:16,960
york times then you go tell politico and

1039
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:18,800
washington post no it's advanced

1040
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:21,680
aviation you say louis alexander retired

1041
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:23,839
on uh october the 4th and then you put

1042
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:25,280
out a press release and say he were

1043
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:27,200
retired on the 10th and it's this thing

1044
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:28,960
where you put out two different stories

1045
00:36:32,310 --> 00:36:30,480
they compete with each other and

1046
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:32,320
everybody starts to fight so anybody in

1047
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:33,920
the ufo community saying you're a liar

1048
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,680
it's not this you're lying i've got the

1049
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:37,359
real thing and that's what they do they

1050
00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:39,119
play the ufo community off against each

1051
00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:41,920
other and they did this back already

1052
00:36:45,910 --> 00:36:44,320
in 1974 when bob emeneger did the

1053
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:45,920
holloman air force base story right he

1054
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:48,960
did the documentary ufo's present

1055
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:51,040
past present future was contacted by the

1056
00:36:53,829 --> 00:36:52,640
security manager norton air force base

1057
00:36:55,589 --> 00:36:53,839
and they said we want you to do these

1058
00:36:57,190 --> 00:36:55,599
eight documentaries we also want you to

1059
00:36:58,870 --> 00:36:57,200
do this ufo documentary we want you to

1060
00:37:00,069 --> 00:36:58,880
hide it under the other documentaries

1061
00:37:01,109 --> 00:37:00,079
and they tell them the whole story six

1062
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:01,119
o'clock in the morning there's four

1063
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:02,480
different cameras one in the air and a

1064
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,040
helicopter and all the details where the

1065
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:07,200
where the craft was stored everything

1066
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:09,760
and they say it happened in may of 1971.

1067
00:37:13,349 --> 00:37:11,440
so that's the one date and then of

1068
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:13,359
course they haul in linda howe richard

1069
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:14,880
dodie halls and then the house says no

1070
00:37:21,829 --> 00:37:19,040
it wasn't may 1971 it was uh

1071
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:21,839
april of 1964. so now it's like me and

1072
00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:22,960
linda are fighting about what the date

1073
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:24,800
is oh you're a liar you've got the wrong

1074
00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:26,320
source and that's what they do they put

1075
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:28,240
out two different stories and so with

1076
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:29,680
this document

1077
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:31,119
when richard went on your show and

1078
00:37:35,109 --> 00:37:33,200
talked about this i said it's the same

1079
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:35,119
it's the same you know what different

1080
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:36,560
day it's they're doing the same thing

1081
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:38,480
again this is right right put it out and

1082
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:41,280
all it is in the end i think what it is

1083
00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:43,520
is they really don't care in fact i've

1084
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:45,520
had i had a conversation a long

1085
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:46,880
conversation yesterday with melinda

1086
00:37:49,829 --> 00:37:48,079
leslie

1087
00:37:52,230 --> 00:37:49,839
she talked with jim semivan for 45

1088
00:37:54,150 --> 00:37:52,240
minutes i talked to richard dolan i

1089
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:54,160
talked to the young guns and they've all

1090
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:55,680
made the contacts

1091
00:38:01,030 --> 00:37:59,119
to either uh jim semivan or to help it

1092
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:01,040
off and they've all got the same thing

1093
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:04,480
no comment so in the end i don't really

1094
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:06,640
think they even care because that's what

1095
00:38:11,589 --> 00:38:10,000
uh melinda seemed to indicate that uh

1096
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:11,599
jim samuel said yeah they're not too

1097
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:13,440
worried about no no and that's the thing

1098
00:38:17,109 --> 00:38:15,440
this helps them as much as they may want

1099
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:17,119
to dispute this helps them because what

1100
00:38:21,589 --> 00:38:18,960
you need to do what they're doing what i

1101
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,599
believe they're doing is in order to get

1102
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:23,760
the money it's all about the money in

1103
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:26,400
order to get the money from congress you

1104
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:28,079
have to do the disclosure thing you've

1105
00:38:32,230 --> 00:38:30,560
got to get this thing public so there

1106
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:32,240
it's not that they're trying to get you

1107
00:38:34,710 --> 00:38:33,520
i and the american people to believe

1108
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:34,720
they're trying to get these congress

1109
00:38:39,270 --> 00:38:37,359
guys to believe that ufos are real and

1110
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:39,280
that we should study this thing so this

1111
00:38:43,109 --> 00:38:41,280
helps this this helps him it goes into

1112
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:43,119
that narrative yeah this is for real

1113
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:44,400
there's a little bit of a leak a little

1114
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:46,000
bit of security thing you shouldn't have

1115
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:47,520
been telling bob bigelow this stuff and

1116
00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:48,960
all that kind of stuff but in the end

1117
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:51,440
it's going to benefit them and then my

1118
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:52,720
disagreement is that they're going to do

1119
00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:53,839
this thing they're going to get congress

1120
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:55,359
believing yeah this is for real we need

1121
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:56,720
to study this and then they're going to

1122
00:39:00,069 --> 00:38:58,320
do the 180 degree turn they're going to

1123
00:39:01,349 --> 00:39:00,079
say and they're evil aliens so that's

1124
00:39:02,710 --> 00:39:01,359
where i've got it but i don't think

1125
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:02,720
they're really disturbed from what i've

1126
00:39:06,630 --> 00:39:05,119
heard after the leak

1127
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:06,640
they're not really worried what they're

1128
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:08,240
doing is they're saying no comment and

1129
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:10,000
this is how it works in washington you

1130
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:12,079
say no comment when you get the next

1131
00:39:16,470 --> 00:39:14,400
question you double down you double down

1132
00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:16,480
you double down and by the third time

1133
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:17,920
everybody walks away and that's what i'm

1134
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:20,000
afraid this story may happen is they're

1135
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:22,400
just going to sit quietly and just not

1136
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:25,040
talk about it and eventually new video

1137
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:26,880
will come out the ufo community has like

1138
00:39:31,589 --> 00:39:29,760
a 24-hour uh attention span just like

1139
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:31,599
the news that there's so much news

1140
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,160
coming there's so many stories that most

1141
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:36,720
ufo stories will sort of die on the vine

1142
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:37,839
because unless you can keep it going

1143
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:38,960
that's what richard's trying to do he's

1144
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:40,720
trying to keep the story going trying to

1145
00:39:44,069 --> 00:39:41,920
you know are there more documents this

1146
00:39:45,910 --> 00:39:44,079
kind of stuff but in the end if nothing

1147
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:45,920
really comes up the ufo community will

1148
00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:48,000
move on to something else and plus the

1149
00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:50,240
longer it goes on the more the skeptics

1150
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:51,920
will want to attach their name to the

1151
00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:53,760
story and try to take down grant try to

1152
00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:55,359
take down the document and attach

1153
00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:57,119
themselves and start hammering at the

1154
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:58,960
story and people and all you need in the

1155
00:40:02,150 --> 00:40:00,560
ufo community is one person say oh

1156
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:02,160
there's a hoax and everybody runs for

1157
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:03,280
the door that's what they've done all

1158
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:04,400
the time that's what he did with bob

1159
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:05,520
lazar

1160
00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:07,520
they put people on the base

1161
00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:09,040
show them the stuff they know that when

1162
00:40:12,310 --> 00:40:10,240
they come out they're going to get

1163
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:12,320
exposed they're they know degrees or

1164
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,599
something's wrong with the story or

1165
00:40:17,430 --> 00:40:15,520
whatever the story's not exactly right

1166
00:40:19,829 --> 00:40:17,440
if somebody yells hoax and everybody

1167
00:40:21,190 --> 00:40:19,839
runs for the hills the story gets out

1168
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:21,200
and

1169
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:22,960
you don't have to explain it so it's

1170
00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:25,040
this gradual this drip drip drip leak

1171
00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:26,480
and it's all got to do with the money

1172
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:28,560
it's got to do with getting the american

1173
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:31,040
people to believe that ufos are real

1174
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:33,040
and so

1175
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:34,640
you're going in there and a lot of

1176
00:40:38,870 --> 00:40:36,720
people i'm going to predict are going to

1177
00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:38,880
about to become very very wealthy

1178
00:40:42,870 --> 00:40:40,720
because i think congress will go for

1179
00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:42,880
this they will give them this money and

1180
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:45,920
this is all about a funding a program

1181
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:48,240
or whatever and i asked melinda i said

1182
00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:50,480
melinda okay what is it is it are we

1183
00:40:54,310 --> 00:40:52,240
doing free energy to save the world are

1184
00:40:56,230 --> 00:40:54,320
we gonna you know have a more efficient

1185
00:40:58,950 --> 00:40:56,240
way to kill people and she really didn't

1186
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:58,960
know and so that's the unanswered

1187
00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:01,200
question what what is this program that

1188
00:41:03,829 --> 00:41:02,560
they are they're in the senate armed

1189
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:03,839
services committee which would tend to

1190
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:05,040
indicate this gut do with weapons

1191
00:41:10,470 --> 00:41:07,440
they're not in nasa they're not you know

1192
00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:10,480
in in those agency things are funding

1193
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:13,200
there it would seem to be almost like

1194
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:14,800
skinwalker ranch and that's the import

1195
00:41:17,990 --> 00:41:16,400
stuff that's what the important stuff is

1196
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:18,000
it's the the port stuff the

1197
00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:19,760
materialization that's why they were

1198
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:21,040
skinwalker ranch they were not at

1199
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:22,960
skinwalker ranch for ufos even jack

1200
00:41:26,390 --> 00:41:24,400
valet says we got like everything at

1201
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:26,400
skinwalker ranch except for ufos we've

1202
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:28,480
got all this support stuff stuff being

1203
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:32,000
moved stuff appearing stuff you know

1204
00:41:35,109 --> 00:41:33,599
moving through walls and stuff that's

1205
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:35,119
the kind of stuff that just fascinated

1206
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:36,720
the defense intelligence agency and

1207
00:41:40,230 --> 00:41:37,839
they've been working on it since the

1208
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:40,240
1970s and that's why i'm so fascinated

1209
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:42,079
in this whole thing as well because if

1210
00:41:45,750 --> 00:41:43,359
you can understand this thing about

1211
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:45,760
portals and about moving from that world

1212
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:48,000
whatever it is into this world i mean

1213
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:48,800
that

1214
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:51,440
if you're a an intelligence agency or a

1215
00:41:55,109 --> 00:41:53,520
military i mean that kind of stuff is

1216
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:55,119
really really powerful if you can make

1217
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:57,359
stuff disappear and reappear and all

1218
00:42:01,910 --> 00:41:58,560
this kind of stuff

1219
00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:01,920
did dolan i just texted him to get an

1220
00:42:08,550 --> 00:42:05,200
answer uh directly did dolan publish uh

1221
00:42:10,870 --> 00:42:08,560
the put off reply

1222
00:42:13,349 --> 00:42:10,880
yes he did i i'm pretty sure he did yes

1223
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:13,359
okay so we can comment about that i i

1224
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:16,480
just asked him if he published it

1225
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:18,560
because i don't want to speak uh about

1226
00:42:23,109 --> 00:42:21,359
his private correspondence but if he did

1227
00:42:25,430 --> 00:42:23,119
publish it maybe he should wait for him

1228
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:25,440
to reply yeah i thought i'm thought he

1229
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:27,920
did but i can't be 100 certain i know he

1230
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:29,520
read the whole thing to me

1231
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:32,160
and um yeah he read it too he's a

1232
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:34,560
conversation he had a conversation plus

1233
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:36,160
he got the official statement that he

1234
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:37,280
could quote

1235
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:40,640
know if he's published it yet and i

1236
00:42:47,270 --> 00:42:44,560
don't want to step in front of richard

1237
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:47,280
i'll wait for him to reply because

1238
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:49,040
uh okay i'm not going to comment further

1239
00:42:52,470 --> 00:42:50,960
on that i can't do it i won't do that to

1240
00:42:53,270 --> 00:42:52,480
richard it's not cool

1241
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:53,280
um

1242
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:55,599
but this is the thing

1243
00:43:00,390 --> 00:42:58,640
what about the timing of this uh you

1244
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:00,400
started to uh

1245
00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:04,720
touch upon that the timing of these

1246
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:05,920
leaks

1247
00:43:10,790 --> 00:43:07,920
right now is

1248
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:10,800
is is it suspect to you when it's tied

1249
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:12,800
into everything else that the mainstream

1250
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:15,680
media is doing and of course ttsa and

1251
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:17,599
their television show and the history

1252
00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:18,480
channel

1253
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:19,839
where

1254
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:21,760
some of these some of these players are

1255
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:23,920
mentioned in this document and it

1256
00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:26,800
certainly supports the agenda that is

1257
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:28,960
being played out right now in mainstream

1258
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:31,200
media right do you find that that

1259
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:33,839
it's it wasn't done last year it was

1260
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:36,880
done now do you find that strange if

1261
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:39,280
there if it was them

1262
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:41,680
behind us i i didn't think so but

1263
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:43,520
there's been and i don't want to play

1264
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:45,119
into these conspiracy theories there's

1265
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:46,800
been four conspiracy theories since this

1266
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:48,480
thing broke let me be very funny it's

1267
00:43:52,230 --> 00:43:50,160
this person and i'm going i didn't hear

1268
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:52,240
the name i i can't prove you right or

1269
00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:54,400
wrong right right all this conspiracy

1270
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:55,839
stuff is they're trying to fill in the

1271
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:58,240
gap of you know was somebody behind this

1272
00:44:01,510 --> 00:44:00,160
was uh you know was

1273
00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:01,520
one of the theories is that you know i

1274
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:04,720
was set up uh to distract me from um

1275
00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:06,720
consciousness and i said well i mean if

1276
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:08,560
that is that worked i mean i'm doing two

1277
00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:10,079
interviews under protest i did the one

1278
00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:11,520
on monday and i really as you know i

1279
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:13,040
really didn't want to do this interview

1280
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:15,520
i i'm going back to my i've got five

1281
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:18,000
books in the final editing stages i i've

1282
00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:19,599
got other things that i'm i'm going to

1283
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:20,640
do

1284
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:23,280
this is something that i'm really i call

1285
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:24,880
it the rat hall of all stories i get

1286
00:44:28,550 --> 00:44:26,960
into it i get dragged into it i hate it

1287
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:28,560
i just because it's all this fighting

1288
00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:31,280
stuff i mean i do the the the um the

1289
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:33,119
consciousness stuff and the all that

1290
00:44:36,309 --> 00:44:34,160
kind of stuff and that's like the

1291
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:36,319
woo-woo stuff and whatever but at least

1292
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:37,760
you're not like a fire hydrant and that

1293
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:39,040
kind of thing you know you don't because

1294
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:40,400
here you put out a story and you're like

1295
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:42,079
a fire hydrant it becomes a lifter lifts

1296
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:44,480
her leg and does you know what and in

1297
00:44:49,030 --> 00:44:46,079
that in that world i mean people may be

1298
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:49,040
crazy but at least it's a nicer world

1299
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:51,440
than this this is a real dog eat dog

1300
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:53,839
world this this this disclosure stuff

1301
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:56,960
and and i've gotten you know some

1302
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:58,640
some backlash after

1303
00:45:02,470 --> 00:45:00,240
but i i knew i'm leaving i said i'm

1304
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:02,480
gonna do these two interviews uh and the

1305
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:04,480
only reason i did the interviews and the

1306
00:45:07,589 --> 00:45:06,720
reason i put that document out on monday

1307
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:07,599
was i could have stayed in the

1308
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:09,280
background like i could have but but

1309
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:11,040
richard was trying to get a hold of me

1310
00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:13,839
so richard uh got the first document i

1311
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:15,599
guess the young guns may have sent it to

1312
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:18,640
him i know where he he got one

1313
00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:20,160
in the mail from somebody but then i

1314
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:21,760
think the young guns talk to him about

1315
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:24,079
it and then he contacts me he said i

1316
00:45:27,750 --> 00:45:25,760
need to come on my show i need you i

1317
00:45:29,270 --> 00:45:27,760
needed to talk and then i said

1318
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:29,280
no richard i'm not talking about it

1319
00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:31,440
sorry i said now you are i said richard

1320
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:33,599
now you are where i was in november of

1321
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:36,480
2018. good luck to you and i just like

1322
00:45:39,910 --> 00:45:37,680
i'm not going to talk about this richard

1323
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:39,920
i mean you is your you're in the same

1324
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:41,760
boat as me i'm i'm not going to take the

1325
00:45:45,670 --> 00:45:44,079
rap for this and and then he caught he

1326
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:45,680
he's his uh

1327
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:48,000
tracy his wife is very good friends with

1328
00:45:52,870 --> 00:45:51,040
with um my assistant desta so she's on

1329
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:52,880
the phone with destin and oh richard

1330
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:54,480
needs this whatever and and dust is

1331
00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:55,599
saying

1332
00:45:59,430 --> 00:45:57,599
get it grant is not going to talk about

1333
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:59,440
this so richard was trying to get me to

1334
00:46:04,710 --> 00:46:01,119
talk and i didn't talk to him and it was

1335
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:04,720
only last week when i heard from james

1336
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:07,200
and i and richard contacted me again and

1337
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:09,280
he said i'm in the middle of a

1338
00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:10,480
shi

1339
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:13,920
storm and i need to talk to you even for

1340
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:16,319
a few minutes and i realized you know

1341
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:18,240
like all the as i said put in the the

1342
00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:19,599
posting i said all the crazies are

1343
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:20,640
coming out

1344
00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:22,960
and rich is under this huge attack and i

1345
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:24,400
give him credit i mean i give him credit

1346
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:26,560
because it was basically richard dolan

1347
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:28,720
putting his career on the line that you

1348
00:46:31,990 --> 00:46:30,319
know it's i see it like at the bottom of

1349
00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:32,000
the ninth it's you know two out base

1350
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:35,359
bases loaded three three and two and uh

1351
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:37,040
richard's swinging for the fence and and

1352
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:38,640
he's taking the the thing but he saw the

1353
00:46:41,910 --> 00:46:40,319
document so he had this backup he'd

1354
00:46:43,349 --> 00:46:41,920
already seen the document but i give

1355
00:46:44,950 --> 00:46:43,359
richard credit because he did what i

1356
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:44,960
couldn't do i mean he actually went

1357
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:46,560
forward that he got it he immediately

1358
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:48,560
phoned hal put off and then when the

1359
00:46:53,510 --> 00:46:51,359
alien autopsy thing dropped he phoned

1360
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:53,520
kit green and he corresponded with kid

1361
00:46:57,990 --> 00:46:56,400
green so he he made the move and and all

1362
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:58,000
credit to him it was something i

1363
00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:00,240
couldn't do so when this thing started

1364
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:02,079
to sort of go and people were starting

1365
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:04,960
to get very ugly to richard and and all

1366
00:47:08,950 --> 00:47:07,119
the stuff was going on i said you know

1367
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:08,960
i'm kind of the cause of this

1368
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:11,200
i better come and help richard so i told

1369
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:13,280
richard i phoned richard and that's when

1370
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:14,960
he told me about he read me the press

1371
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:16,880
press the thing that hell had allowed

1372
00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:18,960
him to put on and i saw oh they just

1373
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:20,079
kind of played with no comment they're

1374
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:21,119
just going to say nope we're going to

1375
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:23,040
sit here fold our arms and we're just

1376
00:47:26,069 --> 00:47:24,160
not going to talk about it and

1377
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:26,079
eventually it'll go away which is true

1378
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:27,839
so then i sort of felt better it was

1379
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:29,440
sort of like it's been confirmed this

1380
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:31,119
document richard told me he'd seen the

1381
00:47:35,589 --> 00:47:33,119
document and then it was confirmed sort

1382
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:35,599
of by hell by this non-comment

1383
00:47:40,550 --> 00:47:38,000
no comment thing and then i sort of felt

1384
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:40,560
better and then i i told james with this

1385
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:42,400
document that i put out on monday the

1386
00:47:46,950 --> 00:47:44,800
first two i didn't drop but i said to

1387
00:47:48,309 --> 00:47:46,960
james give the document

1388
00:47:50,230 --> 00:47:48,319
to

1389
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:50,240
um richard because everybody was sort of

1390
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:51,760
going down the wrong track it was like

1391
00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:53,680
oh who leaked this and it was all these

1392
00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:55,359
the conspiracy stuff was starting and

1393
00:47:58,309 --> 00:47:56,480
every time there's a vacuum the

1394
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:58,319
conspiracy stuff moves in there so i

1395
00:48:02,470 --> 00:48:01,359
said this document which is the sort of

1396
00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:02,480
the

1397
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:04,240
letter from

1398
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:06,960
bob bigelow to uh mitchell but it's

1399
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:08,400
actually written to all the nids people

1400
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:11,280
but it's mitchell's names on it i said

1401
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:14,319
richard should put this document out

1402
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:16,480
to get people the idea that this is

1403
00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:18,160
coming from mitchell's foss that this is

1404
00:48:22,549 --> 00:48:20,240
not some you know secret government

1405
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:22,559
thing this is it's a simple story edgar

1406
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:25,119
mitchell dies uh the files are opened up

1407
00:48:29,109 --> 00:48:27,040
however it came out and somebody got a

1408
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:29,119
hold of the files as i've said five

1409
00:48:32,069 --> 00:48:31,040
times i've had this happen where you go

1410
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:32,079
and i'm going to stanton's file

1411
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:34,079
september 23rd and i know exactly what

1412
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:36,640
i'm looking for and the archivist is

1413
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:38,800
really good about it they got maybe 400

1414
00:48:42,870 --> 00:48:40,880
boxes there and she's going to allow me

1415
00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:42,880
to poke around i'm looking for certain

1416
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:44,880
files and when i'm going to drop that

1417
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:48,079
stuff as well so that's

1418
00:48:53,109 --> 00:48:50,160
when that whole thing came out

1419
00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:53,119
i said to richard um

1420
00:48:56,710 --> 00:48:54,800
this document and i think he confirmed

1421
00:48:59,030 --> 00:48:56,720
that he had gotten a document but then

1422
00:49:01,190 --> 00:48:59,040
he was doing the he was asking james the

1423
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:01,200
questions and james was answering all

1424
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:02,720
these questions officially and stuff

1425
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:03,680
like that

1426
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:06,960
and then i realized oh he might

1427
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:08,800
drop this document so then i said okay

1428
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:11,119
i'm going to put this document out i'm

1429
00:49:14,630 --> 00:49:12,720
going to put it out and just say to

1430
00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:14,640
people that you saw the posting i said

1431
00:49:17,349 --> 00:49:16,240
i'm going to put this document to show

1432
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:17,359
people

1433
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:18,960
where this came from

1434
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:21,200
and how it how it out occurred to move

1435
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:23,680
people away from the conspiracy stuff to

1436
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:25,920
say this was legal there's nothing

1437
00:49:29,670 --> 00:49:27,920
nothing wrong about this people die all

1438
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:29,680
the time and their files people go and

1439
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:31,200
look at their files and they find stuff

1440
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:33,760
in the files even like i found i told

1441
00:49:39,510 --> 00:49:36,960
you before the show i i've and i've had

1442
00:49:41,109 --> 00:49:39,520
greer a number of times where

1443
00:49:42,549 --> 00:49:41,119
i've found stuff that people say oh

1444
00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:42,559
stephen grayer he's full of you know

1445
00:49:47,670 --> 00:49:44,720
he's making stuff up and i've studied

1446
00:49:49,589 --> 00:49:47,680
stephen since the 1990s and stephen has

1447
00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:49,599
his particular

1448
00:49:53,910 --> 00:49:51,680
you know personality but when it comes

1449
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:53,920
to actually telling what's going on you

1450
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:55,200
want to know the real story and stephen

1451
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:57,040
greer's story is the actual story and

1452
00:50:01,270 --> 00:49:58,880
there was one story that he had told and

1453
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:01,280
this comes up actually in these

1454
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:03,839
oak shannon notes uh they have these

1455
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:05,040
they're they're discussing these

1456
00:50:08,230 --> 00:50:06,319
different subjects

1457
00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:08,240
and the notes basically back up john

1458
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:10,160
alexander's version of things that all

1459
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:12,240
these high-level sei guys that were on

1460
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:13,520
this committee there's about 20 of them

1461
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:15,359
are on john's committee that it looked

1462
00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:16,400
like they really didn't discover

1463
00:50:20,069 --> 00:50:18,160
anything they basically were poking

1464
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:20,079
around and they had this thing on back

1465
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:22,319
engineering and on oak shannon's notes

1466
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:25,440
it just had one name uh billy um bobby

1467
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:27,359
ray inman and this was always the rumor

1468
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:29,599
that bobby irene man ran the the

1469
00:50:34,309 --> 00:50:33,200
um the back engineering and uh bob axler

1470
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:34,319
had gone to him and said i want to meet

1471
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:36,240
mj 12 and this whole controversy we

1472
00:50:41,349 --> 00:50:37,520
taped something about talking about mj

1473
00:50:44,069 --> 00:50:41,359
12 and stuff like that right so uh so

1474
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:44,079
greer told the story that he had gone to

1475
00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:46,240
uh bear goldwater and he had told him

1476
00:50:49,589 --> 00:50:47,760
the story and barry said

1477
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:49,599
so who who's running the program and he

1478
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:51,839
said oh bobby rinman runs this thing he

1479
00:50:56,790 --> 00:50:54,880
won bobby he's my friend uh you know and

1480
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:56,800
stephen says well go talk to him and so

1481
00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:58,079
he says okay i'll talk to him and of

1482
00:51:02,390 --> 00:50:59,520
course everybody said no steven made the

1483
00:51:04,630 --> 00:51:02,400
story up so i've been and stephen i've

1484
00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:04,640
been to maybe 35 archives around the

1485
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:06,880
world this is what i basically like to

1486
00:51:10,549 --> 00:51:08,480
do i go in there for a week and i sit

1487
00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:10,559
there and i poke around because you know

1488
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:12,079
everybody keeps secrets it's like when

1489
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:14,160
you die jimmy if i if i outlive you i'm

1490
00:51:17,190 --> 00:51:15,520
gonna go try to find your files and see

1491
00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:17,200
if you had some secret conversation with

1492
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:19,760
somebody that i can grab and uh pull out

1493
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:21,440
because you and i and every you know

1494
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,800
that you make all these deals with

1495
00:51:25,510 --> 00:51:24,400
people and you say okay i'm not going to

1496
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:25,520
talk about this i'm not going to talk

1497
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:27,280
about that and then when you die all

1498
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:30,240
that stuff's in your files so um

1499
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:32,240
that that's what i i went and i went to

1500
00:51:37,349 --> 00:51:35,920
the goldwater files in er in phoenix and

1501
00:51:38,710 --> 00:51:37,359
i went there and the archivists were

1502
00:51:40,870 --> 00:51:38,720
really nice they helped me there's

1503
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:40,880
actual ufo file i gathered all the

1504
00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:42,160
material they helped me gather the

1505
00:51:48,150 --> 00:51:45,359
material and i came up with 185 pages of

1506
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:48,160
ufo documents from barry goldwater he

1507
00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:49,680
answered most of the letters that had

1508
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:51,760
been sent to him he talked about this uh

1509
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:53,040
you know encountered wright patterson

1510
00:51:56,069 --> 00:51:54,400
air force base a number of times and

1511
00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:56,079
here's the letter here's the letter

1512
00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:58,000
talking about bobby raymond so steven

1513
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:59,760
gerry told the story and i gave this i

1514
00:52:02,950 --> 00:52:01,200
put it out stephen grier put it on his

1515
00:52:04,390 --> 00:52:02,960
website and that's happened a number of

1516
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:04,400
times like the other story was oh he

1517
00:52:08,710 --> 00:52:05,680
didn't deal with

1518
00:52:10,710 --> 00:52:08,720
president clinton well i filed the foia

1519
00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:10,720
and then i got all the documents and i

1520
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:12,160
went to the clinton library and i've

1521
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:13,839
never released these documents there's

1522
00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:15,839
like i don't know four or five hundred

1523
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:17,520
pages of documents from stephen grier

1524
00:52:21,510 --> 00:52:19,599
the the the briefing that he sent to the

1525
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:21,520
president he didn't face to face with

1526
00:52:24,470 --> 00:52:23,040
the president but he sent his briefing

1527
00:52:26,549 --> 00:52:24,480
and all these attachments all these

1528
00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:26,559
documents and i sat there for a couple

1529
00:52:30,950 --> 00:52:28,400
of days and i you know i photographed

1530
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:30,960
all these documents and so i found that

1531
00:52:34,549 --> 00:52:33,359
almost every time stephen greer is right

1532
00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:34,559
about what he says like and i'll give

1533
00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:36,480
you the last example

1534
00:52:42,230 --> 00:52:39,920
is he talks about uh the meeting with um

1535
00:52:45,430 --> 00:52:42,240
uh james woesley and that he met with

1536
00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:45,440
him for three hours in december of 1993

1537
00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:47,839
after clinton came in and jose said i

1538
00:52:51,430 --> 00:52:49,920
don't have access to this and uh john

1539
00:52:53,349 --> 00:52:51,440
peterson from the arlington institute

1540
00:52:54,870 --> 00:52:53,359
was there and all the wives were there

1541
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:54,880
and so stephen comes and he doesn't

1542
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:56,640
release this for about five years and he

1543
00:52:59,589 --> 00:52:58,240
puts it in a book something happened and

1544
00:53:02,150 --> 00:52:59,599
he put in the book and then of course

1545
00:53:03,829 --> 00:53:02,160
woesley and and all these guys deny it

1546
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:03,839
no it's absolutely stephen made this

1547
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:05,280
thing up and most people believe this

1548
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:07,680
all stephen made this whole thing up and

1549
00:53:12,630 --> 00:53:10,720
so um i was i was working on that i

1550
00:53:16,230 --> 00:53:12,640
filed the foin i didn't get anything

1551
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:16,240
there but then what happened uh in in

1552
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:18,160
that regard is that austin fitz came

1553
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:20,800
forward and austin fitz tells the story

1554
00:53:23,670 --> 00:53:22,480
of dealing with john peterson who was

1555
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:23,680
one of the people who was in that

1556
00:53:28,630 --> 00:53:26,800
meeting with greer and with woesley and

1557
00:53:31,510 --> 00:53:28,640
she's she's brought on to the arlington

1558
00:53:33,270 --> 00:53:31,520
institute board as a member and she and

1559
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:33,280
he starts talking to her about uh all

1560
00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:35,040
this ufo stuff and woesley's on the

1561
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:37,359
board of the arlington institute and at

1562
00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:39,280
one point he says would you like to meet

1563
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:41,440
an alien i i you know and she's and she

1564
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:44,720
thought he was he was kidding and so

1565
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:46,960
then when she put the story out

1566
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:49,760
in in an article she wrote of course um

1567
00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:52,640
i was gonna i was gonna publish this and

1568
00:53:57,030 --> 00:53:55,359
i got contacted by put often by peterson

1569
00:53:59,829 --> 00:53:57,040
and it's like no you can't do this uh

1570
00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:59,839
greer's lying this is not true and or

1571
00:54:02,790 --> 00:54:01,119
allison fitz is lying and i said well

1572
00:54:04,309 --> 00:54:02,800
this is the second time john peterson

1573
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:04,319
said the first one didn't happen and now

1574
00:54:08,069 --> 00:54:05,839
he's saying austin fitz thing didn't

1575
00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:08,079
happen so i sent everything that john

1576
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:10,240
peterson had and he's one of these avery

1577
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:11,920
guys he's in this sort of group that

1578
00:54:16,150 --> 00:54:14,000
they hang around with and and i sent it

1579
00:54:17,910 --> 00:54:16,160
to austin fitz and i said okay john

1580
00:54:20,069 --> 00:54:17,920
peterson says this and she went line by

1581
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:20,079
line i stand by my story i stand by my

1582
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:21,920
story i stand by my story this whole

1583
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:24,000
thing and i said okay that basically

1584
00:54:27,910 --> 00:54:25,920
verifies that stephen greer was right

1585
00:54:29,109 --> 00:54:27,920
that when it comes down to it if it

1586
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:29,119
leaks

1587
00:54:32,790 --> 00:54:31,040
they just stand up and say it never

1588
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:32,800
happened and they keep saying it and

1589
00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:34,240
they can they would they walk away from

1590
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:35,680
it you just deny the whole thing and

1591
00:54:39,430 --> 00:54:37,200
that's what happened so i found stephen

1592
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:39,440
greer's account of things and i've

1593
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:40,880
checked a lot of the stuff that he's

1594
00:54:45,589 --> 00:54:43,040
done and i found documents to back it up

1595
00:54:47,589 --> 00:54:45,599
and i say uh basically i believe stephen

1596
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:47,599
greer tells the story about all these

1597
00:54:51,349 --> 00:54:49,440
encounters that he had whether it was a

1598
00:54:52,950 --> 00:54:51,359
defense intelligence agency guy or

1599
00:54:55,589 --> 00:54:52,960
whether it was

1600
00:54:56,549 --> 00:54:55,599
wilson the story that greer tells is

1601
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:56,559
accurate

1602
00:55:00,309 --> 00:54:59,200
let's take a break right here because

1603
00:55:05,910 --> 00:55:00,319
the

1604
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:05,920
that happened in 1997 and his name being

1605
00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:08,559
in there he published it in a book it's

1606
00:55:13,349 --> 00:55:11,280
been talked about but now if these

1607
00:55:15,750 --> 00:55:13,359
documents are indeed real the meeting

1608
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:15,760
happened and it was about ufos

1609
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:17,760
more when we come back with grant

1610
00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:19,359
cameron right after this short break

1611
00:56:00,270 --> 00:55:19,920
stay with us

1612
00:56:04,470 --> 00:56:02,789
[Music]

1613
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:04,480
welcome back fade to black i'm your host

1614
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:05,760
jimmy church our guest tonight grant

1615
00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:07,599
cameron

1616
00:56:12,789 --> 00:56:10,400
we are discussing

1617
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:12,799
the leaked documents

1618
00:56:17,349 --> 00:56:15,119
eric davis and rear admiral thomas

1619
00:56:20,870 --> 00:56:17,359
wilson and their conversation that took

1620
00:56:23,670 --> 00:56:20,880
place in a car behind the eg g building

1621
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:23,680
in las vegas and now uh grant i just let

1622
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:25,760
you know during the break i just spoke

1623
00:56:31,109 --> 00:56:28,079
with richard dolan on the phone

1624
00:56:34,870 --> 00:56:31,119
and he has published the

1625
00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:34,880
hal put off response to comment about

1626
00:56:39,109 --> 00:56:37,280
the eric davis document

1627
00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:39,119
which was do you want to go ahead and

1628
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:40,640
say it i can say it

1629
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:42,079
no you said i haven't got it in front of

1630
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:45,599
me okay which is no comment

1631
00:56:50,950 --> 00:56:49,680
it's and and what what uh hal did say in

1632
00:56:53,270 --> 00:56:50,960
there

1633
00:56:56,390 --> 00:56:53,280
was that i'm gonna paraphrase the

1634
00:56:57,910 --> 00:56:56,400
document is up on uh richard's website

1635
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:57,920
everybody can go and check it out there

1636
00:57:02,309 --> 00:57:00,480
and they also published it last night in

1637
00:57:03,829 --> 00:57:02,319
their live stream on youtube so you can

1638
00:57:06,150 --> 00:57:03,839
go and check out the the official

1639
00:57:07,910 --> 00:57:06,160
statement but i'm gonna paraphrase here

1640
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:07,920
and hal said that

1641
00:57:11,109 --> 00:57:09,520
we

1642
00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:11,119
that's important that's the important

1643
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:15,599
part we are still under uh uh security

1644
00:57:21,510 --> 00:57:18,960
uh on this and we have no comment

1645
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:21,520
and i find that

1646
00:57:27,030 --> 00:57:24,319
interesting number one the word we

1647
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:27,040
all encompassing right of of the group

1648
00:57:33,670 --> 00:57:29,839
that is mentioned in in the document

1649
00:57:35,829 --> 00:57:33,680
but the second part about this uh grant

1650
00:57:38,470 --> 00:57:35,839
which i find very interesting

1651
00:57:41,270 --> 00:57:38,480
which wouldn't be under any security uh

1652
00:57:44,549 --> 00:57:41,280
clearance or oath which is you can say

1653
00:57:46,789 --> 00:57:44,559
that the document is is fake

1654
00:57:48,630 --> 00:57:46,799
that's not under any security clearance

1655
00:57:49,589 --> 00:57:48,640
right but that's not what they said they

1656
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:49,599
said

1657
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:53,040
we have no comment now what are your

1658
00:57:57,990 --> 00:57:56,559
comments on on how

1659
00:58:00,390 --> 00:57:58,000
well they're in a difficult position i

1660
00:58:01,589 --> 00:58:00,400
mean if you take a look at hal and kit

1661
00:58:03,910 --> 00:58:01,599
green

1662
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:03,920
uh they may have the longest held top

1663
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:06,000
secret sa clearances in the country you

1664
00:58:10,309 --> 00:58:08,880
gotta remember they go back to 1971 or

1665
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:10,319
70 or whatever

1666
00:58:13,750 --> 00:58:11,440
um

1667
00:58:15,270 --> 00:58:13,760
like kid green was the control officer

1668
00:58:16,549 --> 00:58:15,280
for the cia for the remote viewing

1669
00:58:19,030 --> 00:58:16,559
program that's right and they've held

1670
00:58:20,789 --> 00:58:19,040
these very high security clearances and

1671
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:20,799
that would be the

1672
00:58:25,670 --> 00:58:23,119
so you're playing off against

1673
00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:25,680
were they happy that this thing leaked

1674
00:58:29,190 --> 00:58:27,040
um

1675
00:58:30,150 --> 00:58:29,200
versus the fact where

1676
00:58:31,670 --> 00:58:30,160
um

1677
00:58:34,309 --> 00:58:31,680
when you look at both of them whether

1678
00:58:36,950 --> 00:58:34,319
it's the um the wilson document or

1679
00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:36,960
whether it's the alien autopsy document

1680
00:58:41,190 --> 00:58:39,040
basically when you look at it it's

1681
00:58:44,150 --> 00:58:41,200
stopped for bob bigelow

1682
00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:44,160
and so um their security clearances is

1683
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:46,880
is going to be a questionable thing was

1684
00:58:49,910 --> 00:58:48,240
he didn't have a security clearance so

1685
00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:49,920
why are you telling bob bigelow this

1686
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:52,480
kind of stuff and if you go back and i

1687
00:58:56,230 --> 00:58:54,240
was there when when this stuff was going

1688
00:58:58,150 --> 00:58:56,240
on and bob bigelow would bring these

1689
00:59:00,390 --> 00:58:58,160
guys in when he had nids he had these

1690
00:59:03,670 --> 00:59:00,400
guys as advisors so he'd bring in john

1691
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:03,680
alexander and kit green and valet and

1692
00:59:07,030 --> 00:59:05,599
all these guys and he had them as paid

1693
00:59:09,510 --> 00:59:07,040
consultants they weren't this is not a

1694
00:59:11,349 --> 00:59:09,520
volunteer operation so

1695
00:59:13,109 --> 00:59:11,359
these documents especially the alien

1696
00:59:16,069 --> 00:59:13,119
autopsy document you'll see

1697
00:59:18,069 --> 00:59:16,079
it's from it's a memo from

1698
00:59:19,829 --> 00:59:18,079
eric davis to bob bigelow now bob

1699
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:19,839
bigelow didn't have a security clearance

1700
00:59:22,549 --> 00:59:21,280
he may have a security clearance now but

1701
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:22,559
i don't think he has secured clearance

1702
00:59:26,870 --> 00:59:24,799
then and so the question would be uh you

1703
00:59:28,710 --> 00:59:26,880
had these top secret security clearances

1704
00:59:29,910 --> 00:59:28,720
why were you talking to bob bigelow why

1705
00:59:31,670 --> 00:59:29,920
did you leak this sort of so there's

1706
00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:31,680
that going to be that backlash and that

1707
00:59:35,990 --> 00:59:33,119
may be what it is

1708
00:59:37,829 --> 00:59:36,000
what semivan and you'd have to you know

1709
00:59:39,829 --> 00:59:37,839
get it from the horse's mouth but

1710
00:59:42,069 --> 00:59:39,839
um melinda told me yesterday that when

1711
00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:42,079
semi-van talked about he said

1712
00:59:47,750 --> 00:59:44,559
even more sort of vague he said if there

1713
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:47,760
is one line in that document that is

1714
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:50,480
classified we have to answer no comment

1715
00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:52,480
to the entire document so i'll give you

1716
00:59:56,309 --> 00:59:54,559
even more but then she sort of asked him

1717
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:56,319
well you know you're worried well no we

1718
00:59:59,190 --> 00:59:57,359
talked about it no we're not really

1719
01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:59,200
worried just like and then you start to

1720
01:00:02,470 --> 01:00:01,119
wonder like this is going to help them

1721
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:02,480
it's really

1722
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:04,160
as much as they may be in a in a

1723
01:00:08,950 --> 01:00:06,880
situation where they were talking about

1724
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:08,960
classified material that's where i go

1725
01:00:12,950 --> 01:00:10,960
back to this thing where i said before

1726
01:00:14,870 --> 01:00:12,960
where eric davis goes on and talks about

1727
01:00:17,430 --> 01:00:14,880
the fact that we had a crash saucer

1728
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,440
program until 1989 and we shut it down

1729
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:19,440
and that the crash last material is not

1730
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:21,280
area 51 and hell comes and talks about

1731
01:00:25,589 --> 01:00:24,000
this this uh document that's real and

1732
01:00:27,270 --> 01:00:25,599
stuff and you're going like wow if

1733
01:00:28,950 --> 01:00:27,280
anything's classified this is classified

1734
01:00:31,030 --> 01:00:28,960
this is the most classified stuff which

1735
01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:31,040
almost indicates that they were allowed

1736
01:00:34,390 --> 01:00:33,280
to go and say this kind of stuff and

1737
01:00:35,910 --> 01:00:34,400
that's what they want they would they

1738
01:00:37,589 --> 01:00:35,920
want people to know this crash saucer

1739
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:37,599
material and stuff it's all plausible

1740
01:00:41,030 --> 01:00:39,520
liability and and so they're doing the

1741
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:41,040
fictionalized thing so you're in

1742
01:00:44,069 --> 01:00:42,400
hollywood and this is how they do it

1743
01:00:45,829 --> 01:00:44,079
it's like chase brandon if you remember

1744
01:00:47,829 --> 01:00:45,839
the chase brandon story chase brandon

1745
01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:47,839
says if you want to read a good book no

1746
01:00:51,349 --> 01:00:49,520
he says if you want a good read read my

1747
01:00:53,349 --> 01:00:51,359
book if you want to learn something read

1748
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:53,359
between the lines and he talked about

1749
01:00:57,349 --> 01:00:55,359
when he did the book and there's

1750
01:00:59,589 --> 01:00:57,359
different versions he's told between two

1751
01:01:01,829 --> 01:00:59,599
and eight times he went to the security

1752
01:01:04,230 --> 01:01:01,839
board at the cia and they reviewed the

1753
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:04,240
book so if jimmy church say save the

1754
01:01:07,589 --> 01:01:05,920
united states from a nuclear attack by

1755
01:01:09,190 --> 01:01:07,599
russia or whatever and you're the secret

1756
01:01:10,870 --> 01:01:09,200
spy and you can't you could never tell

1757
01:01:12,069 --> 01:01:10,880
your story you go to the ci and say i'd

1758
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:12,079
like to tell a story i'd like my

1759
01:01:14,950 --> 01:01:13,440
grandkids to know and they say okay

1760
01:01:16,390 --> 01:01:14,960
jimmy you can tell the story you just

1761
01:01:17,910 --> 01:01:16,400
change the dates you change the names

1762
01:01:19,510 --> 01:01:17,920
you change everything and you can tell

1763
01:01:21,349 --> 01:01:19,520
your story so they're doing the i say

1764
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:21,359
they're doing the fictionalized version

1765
01:01:25,510 --> 01:01:23,040
it's this plausible deniability i have a

1766
01:01:27,670 --> 01:01:25,520
book i pulled the beyond

1767
01:01:29,109 --> 01:01:27,680
managing magic but i have a shorter book

1768
01:01:30,870 --> 01:01:29,119
which is called the alien documents

1769
01:01:32,870 --> 01:01:30,880
where i go through all the documents

1770
01:01:34,950 --> 01:01:32,880
that have been dropped through the years

1771
01:01:37,030 --> 01:01:34,960
in the ufo community and i show you why

1772
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:37,040
they all how they altered it

1773
01:01:40,549 --> 01:01:38,480
and it's the same sort of thing they've

1774
01:01:41,990 --> 01:01:40,559
been doing this right from the word go

1775
01:01:44,470 --> 01:01:42,000
and that's what was critical about the

1776
01:01:45,910 --> 01:01:44,480
mj 12 thing in the document

1777
01:01:48,470 --> 01:01:45,920
once they said in that document the

1778
01:01:49,670 --> 01:01:48,480
wilson document that mj 12 was real that

1779
01:01:52,150 --> 01:01:49,680
means

1780
01:01:54,549 --> 01:01:52,160
bill moore was real richard dodie was

1781
01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:54,559
real uh tim cooper was real the new

1782
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:56,640
majestic 12 documents were real they

1783
01:01:59,910 --> 01:01:58,720
were telling us stuff this was not

1784
01:02:02,230 --> 01:01:59,920
because it was always a thing oh it's a

1785
01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:02,240
big hoax there's no mj-12 it's just bill

1786
01:02:07,750 --> 01:02:04,960
moore's making this stuff up and um this

1787
01:02:08,470 --> 01:02:07,760
confirms that that no it's not

1788
01:02:10,390 --> 01:02:08,480
so

1789
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:10,400
you you get these guys putting this

1790
01:02:14,069 --> 01:02:11,839
stuff out

1791
01:02:16,789 --> 01:02:14,079
then it seems to indicate no this is

1792
01:02:19,030 --> 01:02:16,799
this may be part of the the plan because

1793
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:19,040
if anything is classified it's going to

1794
01:02:22,470 --> 01:02:20,400
be the fact that we've got crash saucer

1795
01:02:24,309 --> 01:02:22,480
material that you can't get more

1796
01:02:25,510 --> 01:02:24,319
classified than that

1797
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:25,520
the

1798
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:26,880
story

1799
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:27,839
uh

1800
01:02:33,990 --> 01:02:29,920
here which i think is important and we

1801
01:02:36,309 --> 01:02:34,000
need to explore this uh in detail i i

1802
01:02:38,470 --> 01:02:36,319
don't think the community

1803
01:02:41,030 --> 01:02:38,480
is fully understanding

1804
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:41,040
the significance of the back story which

1805
01:02:45,109 --> 01:02:43,680
is oak shannon we need to discuss who

1806
01:02:46,710 --> 01:02:45,119
oak shannon is

1807
01:02:50,230 --> 01:02:46,720
oak shannon

1808
01:02:52,390 --> 01:02:50,240
put together it appears to me grant that

1809
01:02:56,470 --> 01:02:52,400
oak shannon put together this meeting

1810
01:02:58,230 --> 01:02:56,480
between eric davis and and wilson and

1811
01:03:02,069 --> 01:02:58,240
and set this up

1812
01:03:04,069 --> 01:03:02,079
if that is indeed the case then why is

1813
01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:04,079
it important for oak shannon and the

1814
01:03:09,349 --> 01:03:06,319
group i'm talking about eric davis and

1815
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:09,359
hal put off and and kit green and

1816
01:03:12,549 --> 01:03:11,200
everybody else that is around john

1817
01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:12,559
alexander

1818
01:03:17,430 --> 01:03:14,960
uh to put together this meeting to

1819
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:17,440
extract the

1820
01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:18,480
uh

1821
01:03:23,670 --> 01:03:20,400
the meeting that happened at the

1822
01:03:26,230 --> 01:03:23,680
pentagon back in 1997. it was important

1823
01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:26,240
for these guys to get this information

1824
01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:29,119
so let's discuss that the community

1825
01:03:31,589 --> 01:03:30,720
doesn't understand

1826
01:03:34,150 --> 01:03:31,599
uh

1827
01:03:37,589 --> 01:03:34,160
the the group here and and what their

1828
01:03:39,349 --> 01:03:37,599
agenda was so let's start there was it

1829
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:39,359
oak shannon

1830
01:03:46,470 --> 01:03:42,160
that set up this meeting between eric

1831
01:03:47,910 --> 01:03:46,480
davis and uh rear admiral wilson

1832
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:47,920
well that's what i've heard again i have

1833
01:03:51,670 --> 01:03:48,960
to say i haven't really read the

1834
01:03:53,349 --> 01:03:51,680
document i just saw it and i you know

1835
01:03:55,990 --> 01:03:53,359
sort of ignored it once i saw how long

1836
01:03:58,630 --> 01:03:56,000
it was but oak shannon um

1837
01:04:01,109 --> 01:03:58,640
these documents were given to me

1838
01:04:02,549 --> 01:04:01,119
maybe 15 years ago

1839
01:04:03,910 --> 01:04:02,559
under a condition that i could release

1840
01:04:05,589 --> 01:04:03,920
them at a certain time so this is this

1841
01:04:07,750 --> 01:04:05,599
plausible you know this is this leaking

1842
01:04:11,349 --> 01:04:07,760
thing so i was given this

1843
01:04:13,829 --> 01:04:11,359
and so oak shannon allowed his notes

1844
01:04:15,750 --> 01:04:13,839
to be put out there that these would

1845
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:15,760
these would move or eric made this thing

1846
01:04:19,589 --> 01:04:17,280
so i knew he was sort of an important

1847
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:19,599
guy he was kind of a key guy that

1848
01:04:23,510 --> 01:04:21,119
because you got to remember that that

1849
01:04:25,029 --> 01:04:23,520
davis is sort of the junior guy

1850
01:04:27,109 --> 01:04:25,039
davis is i don't know what his age would

1851
01:04:29,430 --> 01:04:27,119
be so he graduated in 91 he had the ufo

1852
01:04:30,950 --> 01:04:29,440
sighting and all the rest of these guys

1853
01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:30,960
are like in their 80s i mean you're

1854
01:04:34,789 --> 01:04:33,359
talking hal put off and kid green and

1855
01:04:37,029 --> 01:04:34,799
john alexander these guys they're sort

1856
01:04:39,109 --> 01:04:37,039
of the old crew and

1857
01:04:40,870 --> 01:04:39,119
davis is the second

1858
01:04:42,630 --> 01:04:40,880
second generation but what you got to

1859
01:04:44,789 --> 01:04:42,640
realize with this whole thing is that

1860
01:04:46,630 --> 01:04:44,799
these guys have been around

1861
01:04:48,789 --> 01:04:46,640
and have known each other and have had

1862
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:48,799
they used to call it bird chatter that

1863
01:04:52,870 --> 01:04:50,240
they would sort of talk with each other

1864
01:04:55,829 --> 01:04:52,880
and i would see the odd email back in

1865
01:04:57,990 --> 01:04:55,839
the 1990s and then i sort of i got cut

1866
01:04:59,190 --> 01:04:58,000
off or i didn't whatever i didn't see

1867
01:05:00,549 --> 01:04:59,200
anything more after but i would see some

1868
01:05:02,789 --> 01:05:00,559
of the stuff and i'd go

1869
01:05:04,950 --> 01:05:02,799
wow these guys these guys know stuff

1870
01:05:07,670 --> 01:05:04,960
that we there's no way i know i when i

1871
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:07,680
saw the document i thought wow they know

1872
01:05:11,349 --> 01:05:09,359
way more never thought they knew they

1873
01:05:13,270 --> 01:05:11,359
they got it all figured out which really

1874
01:05:14,630 --> 01:05:13,280
made me upset was because we're being

1875
01:05:16,630 --> 01:05:14,640
almost like we're being done in by our

1876
01:05:18,069 --> 01:05:16,640
own people that our own people knew what

1877
01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:18,079
was going on and they were keeping a

1878
01:05:22,870 --> 01:05:20,880
secret for whatever contracts patents

1879
01:05:24,309 --> 01:05:22,880
whatever whatever they kept it secret

1880
01:05:26,390 --> 01:05:24,319
and that's where if you took a look at

1881
01:05:28,950 --> 01:05:26,400
the uh diane

1882
01:05:31,109 --> 01:05:28,960
diana posalka's book uh

1883
01:05:33,829 --> 01:05:31,119
american cosmic she talks about

1884
01:05:35,430 --> 01:05:33,839
interacting with what valet called the

1885
01:05:37,109 --> 01:05:35,440
invisible college that's what these guys

1886
01:05:39,270 --> 01:05:37,119
are it's like the avery the invisible

1887
01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:39,280
college and she said which really

1888
01:05:43,750 --> 01:05:41,359
motivated me when i saw this document

1889
01:05:46,069 --> 01:05:43,760
she put in her thing she said they are

1890
01:05:48,390 --> 01:05:46,079
never going to tell people what they've

1891
01:05:50,710 --> 01:05:48,400
discovered and i go like and i'm 65

1892
01:05:52,789 --> 01:05:50,720
years old and you know my understanding

1893
01:05:55,910 --> 01:05:52,799
in school that never is kind of a long

1894
01:05:58,470 --> 01:05:55,920
time and i can't wait for never to come

1895
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:58,480
and so it was the old deal that i knew

1896
01:06:01,589 --> 01:06:00,240
back then that these guys knew stuff

1897
01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:01,599
that they weren't telling people and

1898
01:06:04,549 --> 01:06:03,119
what you got to realize because it's all

1899
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:04,559
centers around nids that's all i think

1900
01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:06,640
this is all i think this is is these are

1901
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:09,440
reports that went to nids because what

1902
01:06:12,549 --> 01:06:10,720
nids would do

1903
01:06:14,710 --> 01:06:12,559
is they would work on various subjects

1904
01:06:16,309 --> 01:06:14,720
and mantle has now come forward about

1905
01:06:18,549 --> 01:06:16,319
the alien autopsy and saying he's

1906
01:06:20,710 --> 01:06:18,559
verifying the document is real and that

1907
01:06:22,870 --> 01:06:20,720
he uh i don't get the whole story but he

1908
01:06:25,750 --> 01:06:22,880
he was with nids he got a brie he gave

1909
01:06:27,109 --> 01:06:25,760
them a briefing in 2000 on the show them

1910
01:06:29,510 --> 01:06:27,119
the film or i don't know what happened

1911
01:06:30,870 --> 01:06:29,520
but but so what what they were doing at

1912
01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:30,880
nids was they were all these guys would

1913
01:06:34,470 --> 01:06:32,960
be called in for six meetings a year and

1914
01:06:35,910 --> 01:06:34,480
then it reduced it to four and then to

1915
01:06:37,589 --> 01:06:35,920
two and then he basically shut needs

1916
01:06:39,270 --> 01:06:37,599
down but these guys would come in and

1917
01:06:40,950 --> 01:06:39,280
work on various projects and i know that

1918
01:06:42,470 --> 01:06:40,960
because i was contacted on one of the

1919
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:42,480
projects they were working on so they

1920
01:06:45,589 --> 01:06:43,920
would have a subject so they would for

1921
01:06:46,549 --> 01:06:45,599
example the alien autopsy and they say

1922
01:06:47,910 --> 01:06:46,559
okay

1923
01:06:49,430 --> 01:06:47,920
what do we know about the other autopsy

1924
01:06:51,349 --> 01:06:49,440
let's dig let's find out what we've got

1925
01:06:53,349 --> 01:06:51,359
who's and all and you got you know

1926
01:06:54,710 --> 01:06:53,359
military and intelligence people and

1927
01:06:56,789 --> 01:06:54,720
everybody's inputting this stuff and

1928
01:06:58,789 --> 01:06:56,799
that's where kit green adds this stuff

1929
01:07:01,589 --> 01:06:58,799
to the briefings that he got about the

1930
01:07:03,349 --> 01:07:01,599
alien autopsy and um

1931
01:07:05,029 --> 01:07:03,359
i was called in on the hull of an air

1932
01:07:06,630 --> 01:07:05,039
force base story because i was involved

1933
01:07:08,470 --> 01:07:06,640
with bob emeneger i've got all the

1934
01:07:11,029 --> 01:07:08,480
interviews with bob emeneger who put out

1935
01:07:12,950 --> 01:07:11,039
he was the producer from la who put out

1936
01:07:15,510 --> 01:07:12,960
ufos past resident future which was a

1937
01:07:17,109 --> 01:07:15,520
setup it was a cia the cia was on the

1938
01:07:20,309 --> 01:07:17,119
set the entire time they shot the

1939
01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:20,319
documentary uh he had access to anybody

1940
01:07:23,510 --> 01:07:21,760
he could walk in the pentagon without

1941
01:07:25,109 --> 01:07:23,520
signing in and he put out this

1942
01:07:27,190 --> 01:07:25,119
documentary and part of it was the

1943
01:07:28,870 --> 01:07:27,200
holloman air force base story so in the

1944
01:07:30,710 --> 01:07:28,880
in the in this documentary they put the

1945
01:07:33,430 --> 01:07:30,720
hollander first base he has the actual

1946
01:07:36,069 --> 01:07:33,440
possession of the film this uh film that

1947
01:07:38,710 --> 01:07:36,079
linda howe was offered that uh a lot of

1948
01:07:40,710 --> 01:07:38,720
people were offered and he

1949
01:07:42,230 --> 01:07:40,720
puts the documentary at the end they

1950
01:07:43,750 --> 01:07:42,240
pull it this is how they do you put it

1951
01:07:45,829 --> 01:07:43,760
out you pull it back so they give them

1952
01:07:46,710 --> 01:07:45,839
the thing he does the whole documentary

1953
01:07:49,109 --> 01:07:46,720
they give him this thing about

1954
01:07:50,630 --> 01:07:49,119
channeling the alien in the in the cia

1955
01:07:52,789 --> 01:07:50,640
all this kind of stuff and at the very

1956
01:07:54,710 --> 01:07:52,799
end they say oh it's the watergate dates

1957
01:07:56,230 --> 01:07:54,720
uh it's it's kind of a bad time we got

1958
01:07:58,390 --> 01:07:56,240
to pull the film you got a storyboard

1959
01:08:02,069 --> 01:07:58,400
this thing you can't you can't use it

1960
01:08:03,829 --> 01:08:02,079
and they pull they pull the um the film

1961
01:08:06,069 --> 01:08:03,839
and yet they give them eight seconds of

1962
01:08:07,829 --> 01:08:06,079
film that is in the actual documentary

1963
01:08:09,910 --> 01:08:07,839
so eight seconds of the actual film is

1964
01:08:11,750 --> 01:08:09,920
in there i go to bob and i say and i had

1965
01:08:13,589 --> 01:08:11,760
interviewed bob over and over and over

1966
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:13,599
again i would see him all the time go to

1967
01:08:17,030 --> 01:08:15,760
his house stay at his house and i was i

1968
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:17,040
knew this was an important story so i

1969
01:08:20,470 --> 01:08:18,480
would document all the stuff and tape

1970
01:08:21,990 --> 01:08:20,480
him and stuff like that i said bob

1971
01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:22,000
there's eight seconds of film in that

1972
01:08:24,789 --> 01:08:23,600
documentary you told me they took the

1973
01:08:26,630 --> 01:08:24,799
film back and he tells me this long

1974
01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:26,640
story about these heavy set people in

1975
01:08:30,630 --> 01:08:29,040
the small datsun driving from la to to

1976
01:08:32,470 --> 01:08:30,640
the pentagon to coleman to take this

1977
01:08:35,110 --> 01:08:32,480
film back and i said but bob there's

1978
01:08:36,390 --> 01:08:35,120
eight seconds of film in the documentary

1979
01:08:38,229 --> 01:08:36,400
you told me they took the film back he

1980
01:08:39,749 --> 01:08:38,239
said oh it was just background i said

1981
01:08:41,110 --> 01:08:39,759
what do you mean his background he said

1982
01:08:42,630 --> 01:08:41,120
well didn't show anything and that was

1983
01:08:44,309 --> 01:08:42,640
the thing they showed this object coming

1984
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:44,319
over the hill at home and air force base

1985
01:08:47,669 --> 01:08:45,839
so anyway i had all this background on

1986
01:08:49,590 --> 01:08:47,679
the hall of interface based story

1987
01:08:51,510 --> 01:08:49,600
so what happened was

1988
01:08:52,630 --> 01:08:51,520
it appeared in this documentary called

1989
01:08:55,269 --> 01:08:52,640
ufos

1990
01:08:57,269 --> 01:08:55,279
uh ufo cover up live in 1988 this is

1991
01:08:59,269 --> 01:08:57,279
another one that was done it was gained

1992
01:09:01,829 --> 01:08:59,279
done by gray advertising a front company

1993
01:09:03,990 --> 01:09:01,839
for the cia and they had put this second

1994
01:09:07,189 --> 01:09:04,000
documentary out and they had talked

1995
01:09:08,390 --> 01:09:07,199
about this this emanager alan sandler

1996
01:09:10,950 --> 01:09:08,400
who actually saw the film who's the

1997
01:09:12,709 --> 01:09:10,960
security manager norton and

1998
01:09:14,229 --> 01:09:12,719
um

1999
01:09:15,269 --> 01:09:14,239
all the people are involved were on on

2000
01:09:18,309 --> 01:09:15,279
this set

2001
01:09:19,669 --> 01:09:18,319
so they talk about it and then a senator

2002
01:09:22,390 --> 01:09:19,679
chris dodd

2003
01:09:24,309 --> 01:09:22,400
gets people are contacting him and they

2004
01:09:26,390 --> 01:09:24,319
get furious and they say we need to find

2005
01:09:27,829 --> 01:09:26,400
out what's going on and he files an foia

2006
01:09:29,189 --> 01:09:27,839
and he's trying to find the whole air

2007
01:09:31,430 --> 01:09:29,199
first base film

2008
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:31,440
and he finds out it's in a navy sink and

2009
01:09:34,070 --> 01:09:32,640
we still don't know what that means so

2010
01:09:35,990 --> 01:09:34,080
anyway i have all this background on the

2011
01:09:38,149 --> 01:09:36,000
holloman air force base so at one point

2012
01:09:40,070 --> 01:09:38,159
nids decides they're going to find out

2013
01:09:41,590 --> 01:09:40,080
about holland air force base so i get

2014
01:09:43,349 --> 01:09:41,600
contacted by

2015
01:09:44,950 --> 01:09:43,359
um i guess it was eric was doing the

2016
01:09:46,630 --> 01:09:44,960
contact and it's like what do you know

2017
01:09:48,390 --> 01:09:46,640
what did bob tell you and i tell the

2018
01:09:51,510 --> 01:09:48,400
whole story and they tell me they're

2019
01:09:52,630 --> 01:09:51,520
bringing paul shardle into las vegas to

2020
01:09:53,669 --> 01:09:52,640
interview him so that's what they're

2021
01:09:55,110 --> 01:09:53,679
doing they're doing these various

2022
01:09:57,030 --> 01:09:55,120
projects and they would try to figure

2023
01:09:58,149 --> 01:09:57,040
out what about the alien autopsy film

2024
01:09:59,510 --> 01:09:58,159
what about crop circles what about

2025
01:10:00,950 --> 01:09:59,520
cattle relations and they would take

2026
01:10:02,550 --> 01:10:00,960
these various subjects and they would

2027
01:10:05,189 --> 01:10:02,560
they would go through it and they did

2028
01:10:07,189 --> 01:10:05,199
consciousness bigelow put 3.7 million

2029
01:10:08,310 --> 01:10:07,199
dollars into consciousness studies they

2030
01:10:09,750 --> 01:10:08,320
had all these different things that they

2031
01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:09,760
were trying to figure out so those are

2032
01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:10,800
the documents these are the two

2033
01:10:15,030 --> 01:10:12,719
documents they were i believe were both

2034
01:10:16,229 --> 01:10:15,040
reports that had gone and all the needs

2035
01:10:18,550 --> 01:10:16,239
people will have them all the people

2036
01:10:19,910 --> 01:10:18,560
that they send central people maybe not

2037
01:10:22,709 --> 01:10:19,920
all the niz people but the central

2038
01:10:24,950 --> 01:10:22,719
people will all have these documents and

2039
01:10:26,870 --> 01:10:24,960
all they did was they forgot to go pick

2040
01:10:29,189 --> 01:10:26,880
up the documents from mitchell when when

2041
01:10:30,470 --> 01:10:29,199
he passed away that uh you know we had

2042
01:10:33,030 --> 01:10:30,480
these in his file because he was on the

2043
01:10:34,470 --> 01:10:33,040
nid's board and it was uh

2044
01:10:36,390 --> 01:10:34,480
that's my understanding of what it is i

2045
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:36,400
may be wrong but i just think there's

2046
01:10:41,350 --> 01:10:38,880
well let me let me jump in so what you

2047
01:10:43,590 --> 01:10:41,360
are suggesting which is what i believe

2048
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:43,600
is the case and and certainly richard

2049
01:10:48,790 --> 01:10:45,520
dolan does too as well

2050
01:10:52,470 --> 01:10:48,800
is that everybody in the this was knight

2051
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:52,480
or 2002 but everybody in needs at that

2052
01:10:59,830 --> 01:10:54,560
point that circle

2053
01:11:02,229 --> 01:10:59,840
also have these eric davis notes of the

2054
01:11:03,910 --> 01:11:02,239
uh meeting that he had with wilson in

2055
01:11:05,110 --> 01:11:03,920
the back of the car is that your

2056
01:11:06,149 --> 01:11:05,120
understanding that's what they were

2057
01:11:07,590 --> 01:11:06,159
doing

2058
01:11:08,630 --> 01:11:07,600
i would say would be the main people you

2059
01:11:10,310 --> 01:11:08,640
might not have there was people that

2060
01:11:11,990 --> 01:11:10,320
were brought in like reed was brought in

2061
01:11:13,270 --> 01:11:12,000
nap was brought in you know for the

2062
01:11:14,790 --> 01:11:13,280
occasional meeting or something so it

2063
01:11:17,030 --> 01:11:14,800
wouldn't be the people it would be the

2064
01:11:17,990 --> 01:11:17,040
core people that uh whoever the

2065
01:11:19,510 --> 01:11:18,000
consultants were because there were

2066
01:11:21,510 --> 01:11:19,520
certain people that were being paid were

2067
01:11:23,830 --> 01:11:21,520
being brought in as consultants like kit

2068
01:11:25,350 --> 01:11:23,840
green i know for sure and john alexander

2069
01:11:27,270 --> 01:11:25,360
was being paid and hel put off they were

2070
01:11:29,350 --> 01:11:27,280
being brought in as consultants on this

2071
01:11:31,189 --> 01:11:29,360
thing so those those key guys and that

2072
01:11:32,709 --> 01:11:31,199
backs up the story where richard when

2073
01:11:34,950 --> 01:11:32,719
richard tells the story that he was

2074
01:11:36,550 --> 01:11:34,960
shown it it was the same thing it was

2075
01:11:37,750 --> 01:11:36,560
this avery group because richards

2076
01:11:41,110 --> 01:11:37,760
interacted with a lot of these people

2077
01:11:44,310 --> 01:11:41,120
over the years as well same as i have so

2078
01:11:47,350 --> 01:11:44,320
why would oak shannon

2079
01:11:51,270 --> 01:11:47,360
uh want this information out of wilson

2080
01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:51,280
why task davis to go and extract

2081
01:11:55,510 --> 01:11:53,600
this information well david davis is

2082
01:11:57,430 --> 01:11:55,520
really sharp guy i mean if you've ever

2083
01:12:00,229 --> 01:11:57,440
interacted with him i mean he is he's an

2084
01:12:01,830 --> 01:12:00,239
experiencer i mean he is in this thing

2085
01:12:03,910 --> 01:12:01,840
i remember the conversations i had you

2086
01:12:06,390 --> 01:12:03,920
get davis going i mean he'll talk i mean

2087
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:06,400
he is really intelligent and he's got an

2088
01:12:10,390 --> 01:12:08,560
intelligence background so i mean he

2089
01:12:11,669 --> 01:12:10,400
would tell me stories where he could get

2090
01:12:13,910 --> 01:12:11,679
it because he had an intelligence

2091
01:12:17,030 --> 01:12:13,920
background so that was the deal he could

2092
01:12:18,470 --> 01:12:17,040
go in and he he is really

2093
01:12:20,310 --> 01:12:18,480
i mean an excellent researcher one of

2094
01:12:21,990 --> 01:12:20,320
the best i've ever seen in terms of he

2095
01:12:24,550 --> 01:12:22,000
was determined he was going to figure

2096
01:12:26,310 --> 01:12:24,560
out what was going on and so he was

2097
01:12:29,110 --> 01:12:26,320
digging and and he had this close

2098
01:12:30,790 --> 01:12:29,120
contact to to oak shannon which my

2099
01:12:32,630 --> 01:12:30,800
understanding from the document is that

2100
01:12:34,550 --> 01:12:32,640
the only reason they talked to him was

2101
01:12:37,669 --> 01:12:34,560
because oak shannon gave the approval

2102
01:12:39,910 --> 01:12:37,679
that oak shannon is this high level guy

2103
01:12:41,590 --> 01:12:39,920
that everybody respects or whatever and

2104
01:12:44,310 --> 01:12:41,600
you've got to talk to davis but davis is

2105
01:12:46,470 --> 01:12:44,320
a really aggressive researcher who

2106
01:12:48,390 --> 01:12:46,480
probably knows probably as much as

2107
01:12:51,750 --> 01:12:48,400
anybody about what's going on here

2108
01:12:53,350 --> 01:12:51,760
basically on his on his interest on his

2109
01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:53,360
uh aggressive trying to figure out the

2110
01:12:55,750 --> 01:12:54,239
answer and because he's got an

2111
01:12:58,630 --> 01:12:55,760
intelligence background

2112
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:58,640
and then we have uh and when we come

2113
01:13:01,030 --> 01:13:00,239
back after the break i'm going to jump

2114
01:13:03,270 --> 01:13:01,040
to

2115
01:13:05,830 --> 01:13:03,280
uh the last couple of pages of the

2116
01:13:07,189 --> 01:13:05,840
document which are probably crazier than

2117
01:13:09,270 --> 01:13:07,199
page one

2118
01:13:12,070 --> 01:13:09,280
but i want to talk about uh the will

2119
01:13:15,430 --> 01:13:12,080
miller uh letter and

2120
01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:15,440
as a whole when we look at all 15 pages

2121
01:13:20,310 --> 01:13:17,360
13 are the transcription of the

2122
01:13:21,750 --> 01:13:20,320
conversation two pages are will miller's

2123
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:21,760
uh letter

2124
01:13:26,950 --> 01:13:23,600
uh

2125
01:13:29,189 --> 01:13:26,960
do you believe that everything is real

2126
01:13:31,270 --> 01:13:29,199
that there isn't anything being hoaxed

2127
01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:31,280
here right or created

2128
01:13:34,790 --> 01:13:33,280
no absolutely nope okay i think it was

2129
01:13:37,189 --> 01:13:34,800
just simple

2130
01:13:39,110 --> 01:13:37,199
they somebody got some of the files all

2131
01:13:40,470 --> 01:13:39,120
the files i don't know what but this

2132
01:13:41,350 --> 01:13:40,480
stuff was in there

2133
01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:41,360
and

2134
01:13:44,310 --> 01:13:42,640
the the two

2135
01:13:46,070 --> 01:13:44,320
key items

2136
01:13:47,750 --> 01:13:46,080
uh were for example it was the wilson

2137
01:13:49,189 --> 01:13:47,760
document was first uh shown to me i

2138
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:49,199
didn't know there was alien autopsy

2139
01:13:52,149 --> 01:13:50,640
document i didn't know that there was

2140
01:13:54,870 --> 01:13:52,159
this bigelow thing i didn't get that

2141
01:13:57,110 --> 01:13:54,880
till later uh so i i didn't know i

2142
01:13:59,590 --> 01:13:57,120
thought it was just the the one document

2143
01:14:01,590 --> 01:13:59,600
but um then i found out there was other

2144
01:14:04,709 --> 01:14:01,600
one another one there's there's stuff

2145
01:14:07,910 --> 01:14:04,719
and so no i mean it was um

2146
01:14:09,990 --> 01:14:07,920
i absolutely believe and in fact there's

2147
01:14:11,430 --> 01:14:10,000
young guns came to me after the thing

2148
01:14:13,430 --> 01:14:11,440
broke because and it still well it

2149
01:14:14,950 --> 01:14:13,440
hadn't richard hadn't gone public with

2150
01:14:15,910 --> 01:14:14,960
it but the young guns are always talking

2151
01:14:16,870 --> 01:14:15,920
to me because they're trying to figure

2152
01:14:18,709 --> 01:14:16,880
out you know

2153
01:14:19,910 --> 01:14:18,719
what i know and stuff and they and i

2154
01:14:21,669 --> 01:14:19,920
talked about this you got to realize i

2155
01:14:23,350 --> 01:14:21,679
don't know if he knew this i had talked

2156
01:14:25,030 --> 01:14:23,360
about this document and i said i was

2157
01:14:26,630 --> 01:14:25,040
going to drop it i said this back in

2158
01:14:29,110 --> 01:14:26,640
december i was on

2159
01:14:30,709 --> 01:14:29,120
john greenwald's show i was on uh spaced

2160
01:14:32,550 --> 01:14:30,719
out radio i went to a bunch of people

2161
01:14:34,709 --> 01:14:32,560
and then i thought what an idiot because

2162
01:14:36,790 --> 01:14:34,719
i got myself in this box where i talked

2163
01:14:38,070 --> 01:14:36,800
about and i thought why did i talk about

2164
01:14:39,510 --> 01:14:38,080
it i could have just dropped the thing i

2165
01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:39,520
mean i kind of you know just dropped it

2166
01:14:43,270 --> 01:14:40,640
and nobody would know where it's coming

2167
01:14:44,390 --> 01:14:43,280
from but uh i talked about it and

2168
01:14:46,310 --> 01:14:44,400
everybody knew i had to document so

2169
01:14:48,310 --> 01:14:46,320
these young gun guys were talking to me

2170
01:14:50,310 --> 01:14:48,320
and then after the thing dropped before

2171
01:14:51,430 --> 01:14:50,320
richard went public with it they came to

2172
01:14:53,750 --> 01:14:51,440
me and they said

2173
01:14:55,110 --> 01:14:53,760
oh we talked to somebody we we tracked

2174
01:14:58,390 --> 01:14:55,120
back we talked to somebody i think they

2175
01:15:00,310 --> 01:14:58,400
talked to miller but i i said oh so

2176
01:15:01,669 --> 01:15:00,320
that's another stamp for your stamp book

2177
01:15:02,470 --> 01:15:01,679
because that was the whole deal it was

2178
01:15:04,550 --> 01:15:02,480
like

2179
01:15:06,630 --> 01:15:04,560
you so what you talked to somebody you

2180
01:15:08,310 --> 01:15:06,640
whoever you talk to to sort of

2181
01:15:10,149 --> 01:15:08,320
to back up this document or because they

2182
01:15:11,270 --> 01:15:10,159
had the document for a long time and i

2183
01:15:12,870 --> 01:15:11,280
was like what gives it you're not going

2184
01:15:13,910 --> 01:15:12,880
to release it so i said don't i don't

2185
01:15:16,709 --> 01:15:13,920
want to hear about it i don't want to

2186
01:15:18,470 --> 01:15:16,719
hear anything good you got it fantastic

2187
01:15:19,990 --> 01:15:18,480
so there was people doing this kind of

2188
01:15:22,229 --> 01:15:20,000
stuff and the one thing i forgot to

2189
01:15:24,149 --> 01:15:22,239
mention and which put a lot of pressure

2190
01:15:25,590 --> 01:15:24,159
on like i wasn't sleeping and i didn't

2191
01:15:29,270 --> 01:15:25,600
know what i was gonna do with this thing

2192
01:15:32,470 --> 01:15:29,280
and then suddenly my friend who uh sort

2193
01:15:33,910 --> 01:15:32,480
of uh knows ron pandolfi at the cia says

2194
01:15:36,709 --> 01:15:33,920
oh ryan was talking to me the other day

2195
01:15:37,910 --> 01:15:36,719
he says uh you got some documents uh ron

2196
01:15:39,590 --> 01:15:37,920
wants to know is grant got some

2197
01:15:41,110 --> 01:15:39,600
documents to you do i know what he what

2198
01:15:42,870 --> 01:15:41,120
he's got and i'm going oh the walls are

2199
01:15:44,630 --> 01:15:42,880
closing in right and then he says can

2200
01:15:45,669 --> 01:15:44,640
you send me the document i said no i

2201
01:15:46,790 --> 01:15:45,679
don't think i'll send you the documents

2202
01:15:48,870 --> 01:15:46,800
because i was afraid he might give them

2203
01:15:50,310 --> 01:15:48,880
to ron and i figured like because i'm

2204
01:15:52,070 --> 01:15:50,320
not an american citizen i mean you know

2205
01:15:54,390 --> 01:15:52,080
i don't have any sort of protection or

2206
01:15:56,070 --> 01:15:54,400
whatever and when i heard that pandolfi

2207
01:15:57,669 --> 01:15:56,080
was looking to find out what i had i'm

2208
01:16:00,709 --> 01:15:57,679
thinking oh this is just a serious

2209
01:16:01,910 --> 01:16:00,719
business so it was it was kind of

2210
01:16:03,430 --> 01:16:01,920
uh

2211
01:16:05,110 --> 01:16:03,440
well you know the most more

2212
01:16:09,110 --> 01:16:05,120
nerve-wracking time of my life that's

2213
01:16:11,110 --> 01:16:09,120
for sure now uh eric davis uh has he

2214
01:16:12,870 --> 01:16:11,120
reached out to you have you talked to uh

2215
01:16:15,350 --> 01:16:12,880
eric davis no they won't i knew that

2216
01:16:17,189 --> 01:16:15,360
before they they can't because i mean if

2217
01:16:18,550 --> 01:16:17,199
if he says something i just put it on

2218
01:16:20,790 --> 01:16:18,560
the internet i mean

2219
01:16:23,430 --> 01:16:20,800
this is a situation where where you you

2220
01:16:25,510 --> 01:16:23,440
sit there and you you hunker down and

2221
01:16:27,189 --> 01:16:25,520
you don't say anything and it'll go away

2222
01:16:28,950 --> 01:16:27,199
i i can almost guarantee you it'll go

2223
01:16:30,870 --> 01:16:28,960
away somebody will talk to them they'll

2224
01:16:33,030 --> 01:16:30,880
just keep saying no comment or whatever

2225
01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:33,040
uh everything they say just puts fuel on

2226
01:16:35,830 --> 01:16:35,040
the fire there's no way these guys are

2227
01:16:41,590 --> 01:16:35,840
gonna

2228
01:16:43,830 --> 01:16:41,600
game just keep doubling down doubling

2229
01:16:46,149 --> 01:16:43,840
down and hope that it that it sort of

2230
01:16:48,070 --> 01:16:46,159
goes away because in in the end i say

2231
01:16:49,830 --> 01:16:48,080
it's helping them it's it's got this

2232
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:49,840
narrative and i think they're close to

2233
01:16:53,510 --> 01:16:51,840
getting the funding and then once they

2234
01:16:56,070 --> 01:16:53,520
get the funding maybe then they'll talk

2235
01:16:57,350 --> 01:16:56,080
but until the funding comes uh

2236
01:17:00,229 --> 01:16:57,360
everything's up in the air they don't

2237
01:17:02,149 --> 01:17:00,239
want these guys getting nervous and uh

2238
01:17:05,189 --> 01:17:02,159
you know bailing out on the money the

2239
01:17:07,030 --> 01:17:05,199
the they've worked this whole thing is

2240
01:17:09,270 --> 01:17:07,040
to get this funding for whatever it is

2241
01:17:10,149 --> 01:17:09,280
they're getting funding for well we have

2242
01:17:16,149 --> 01:17:10,159
uh

2243
01:17:18,630 --> 01:17:16,159
where you've got hal you've got eric

2244
01:17:21,270 --> 01:17:18,640
davis which he's a couple of degrees

2245
01:17:24,550 --> 01:17:21,280
removed from ttsa but he's part of

2246
01:17:25,270 --> 01:17:24,560
uh all of this and of course bigelow and

2247
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:25,280
uh

2248
01:17:31,910 --> 01:17:30,480
you just said it was but i'm talking

2249
01:17:35,510 --> 01:17:31,920
about directly

2250
01:17:37,350 --> 01:17:35,520
for hal or for eric or for kit

2251
01:17:39,350 --> 01:17:37,360
uh for them to come forward and go the

2252
01:17:43,189 --> 01:17:39,360
documents are real i read them back in

2253
01:17:45,510 --> 01:17:43,199
2002 i've been in possession uh of them

2254
01:17:47,350 --> 01:17:45,520
now we need to move forward

2255
01:17:49,430 --> 01:17:47,360
don't you suspect that that's the next

2256
01:17:50,950 --> 01:17:49,440
play here

2257
01:17:52,310 --> 01:17:50,960
no but that's that's always the way they

2258
01:17:54,390 --> 01:17:52,320
work it i mean if you see this thing

2259
01:17:55,189 --> 01:17:54,400
like the videos i mean like my big thing

2260
01:17:56,390 --> 01:17:55,199
and one of the things i'm going to put

2261
01:17:57,750 --> 01:17:56,400
in the book i'm one step closer to

2262
01:17:59,510 --> 01:17:57,760
figuring out who pushed the button in

2263
01:18:03,350 --> 01:17:59,520
the pentagon with these videos so it's

2264
01:18:05,189 --> 01:18:03,360
sort of like you put out um we we we uh

2265
01:18:06,790 --> 01:18:05,199
because i had damon steer the guy who

2266
01:18:08,950 --> 01:18:06,800
talked to

2267
01:18:10,870 --> 01:18:08,960
hillary clinton as soon as it broke the

2268
01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:10,880
new york times story i said damon damon

2269
01:18:14,790 --> 01:18:12,960
follow fya come on this is a story you

2270
01:18:16,390 --> 01:18:14,800
can get another big story here and he

2271
01:18:17,830 --> 01:18:16,400
filed and he actually talked to the

2272
01:18:19,270 --> 01:18:17,840
pentagon and they said we can

2273
01:18:21,110 --> 01:18:19,280
categorically tell you we did not

2274
01:18:23,110 --> 01:18:21,120
release any videos and so they played

2275
01:18:24,790 --> 01:18:23,120
this game it's this denial game it's the

2276
01:18:25,830 --> 01:18:24,800
plausible deniability i mean because if

2277
01:18:27,590 --> 01:18:25,840
they want jimmy they've got three

2278
01:18:30,229 --> 01:18:27,600
options they can either

2279
01:18:31,510 --> 01:18:30,239
um disclose so they're going to stand up

2280
01:18:33,110 --> 01:18:31,520
and say yeah it's all for real they

2281
01:18:34,550 --> 01:18:33,120
could put the president up put the cia

2282
01:18:36,790 --> 01:18:34,560
director up and say yeah it's for real

2283
01:18:37,910 --> 01:18:36,800
they're not disclosing and they're not

2284
01:18:39,270 --> 01:18:37,920
covering up because if they wanted to

2285
01:18:41,350 --> 01:18:39,280
cover up they do what the canadian

2286
01:18:42,870 --> 01:18:41,360
government does and that's just shut up

2287
01:18:45,750 --> 01:18:42,880
and quit talking about it people ask me

2288
01:18:47,669 --> 01:18:45,760
you've been in the ufo thing since 1975

2289
01:18:49,430 --> 01:18:47,679
in canada what does the canadians do and

2290
01:18:50,950 --> 01:18:49,440
i go i haven't got the foggiest notion

2291
01:18:52,390 --> 01:18:50,960
they may not even be any refers i have

2292
01:18:54,550 --> 01:18:52,400
no idea what the canadian government

2293
01:18:56,149 --> 01:18:54,560
does because they don't talk about it so

2294
01:18:57,270 --> 01:18:56,159
they're not disclosing and they're not

2295
01:18:59,430 --> 01:18:57,280
covering up they're doing something in

2296
01:19:00,950 --> 01:18:59,440
between they're doing this gradual drip

2297
01:19:02,790 --> 01:19:00,960
drip drip thing where they can control

2298
01:19:04,630 --> 01:19:02,800
they can pull it back anytime they want

2299
01:19:06,070 --> 01:19:04,640
they can make a story drop they can just

2300
01:19:08,149 --> 01:19:06,080
put some all they're doing is putting

2301
01:19:09,510 --> 01:19:08,159
mud in the water and they want people to

2302
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:09,520
talk the more you talk the more

2303
01:19:13,189 --> 01:19:11,280
consciousness rises the more people

2304
01:19:14,950 --> 01:19:13,199
realize these things for real and they

2305
01:19:16,390 --> 01:19:14,960
want people the question because they

2306
01:19:18,470 --> 01:19:16,400
could come and say yeah we released the

2307
01:19:19,910 --> 01:19:18,480
videos and here's the actual stuff but

2308
01:19:21,430 --> 01:19:19,920
what you see is they put this stuff on

2309
01:19:23,270 --> 01:19:21,440
melon site now going i won't get into it

2310
01:19:24,709 --> 01:19:23,280
tonight but on the melon side all those

2311
01:19:25,990 --> 01:19:24,719
documents on the melon site when people

2312
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:26,000
thought oh these are real documents that

2313
01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:28,320
were used to brief and i go come on and

2314
01:19:32,070 --> 01:19:29,840
they sent me these documents and there's

2315
01:19:33,590 --> 01:19:32,080
all these bizarre mistakes on the

2316
01:19:35,110 --> 01:19:33,600
documents and i'm going to go into this

2317
01:19:37,350 --> 01:19:35,120
in the book and that's what they do is

2318
01:19:39,030 --> 01:19:37,360
it's like you you you like the lazando

2319
01:19:40,470 --> 01:19:39,040
resignation letter i go

2320
01:19:42,550 --> 01:19:40,480
you know first of all it's written to

2321
01:19:44,390 --> 01:19:42,560
this to the secretary of defense when

2322
01:19:46,310 --> 01:19:44,400
you resign you don't resign to the

2323
01:19:48,390 --> 01:19:46,320
secretary of defense you resign to your

2324
01:19:50,550 --> 01:19:48,400
boss and secondly it doesn't have a date

2325
01:19:51,750 --> 01:19:50,560
on it so how can you resign if it

2326
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:51,760
doesn't have a date on it like when are

2327
01:19:55,030 --> 01:19:53,040
you resigning like there's no date on

2328
01:19:57,110 --> 01:19:55,040
this letter and it's those kind of weird

2329
01:19:58,550 --> 01:19:57,120
things that they do that a lot of people

2330
01:20:00,070 --> 01:19:58,560
will jump on it they'll spin it and then

2331
01:20:02,149 --> 01:20:00,080
someone will say oh this is a hoax

2332
01:20:03,510 --> 01:20:02,159
everybody runs for the hills that's this

2333
01:20:05,669 --> 01:20:03,520
this whole game so they're not going to

2334
01:20:07,750 --> 01:20:05,679
change that game the game has worked all

2335
01:20:09,750 --> 01:20:07,760
along they want people to talk about the

2336
01:20:11,189 --> 01:20:09,760
document they want the stuff out there

2337
01:20:12,630 --> 01:20:11,199
but they're not going to

2338
01:20:13,990 --> 01:20:12,640
do the full disclosure thing they're not

2339
01:20:15,590 --> 01:20:14,000
going to come out because they could

2340
01:20:17,110 --> 01:20:15,600
release the videos they could i heard

2341
01:20:18,870 --> 01:20:17,120
there was 200 videos i mean they could

2342
01:20:20,950 --> 01:20:18,880
come and say yeah we have 200 videos and

2343
01:20:23,189 --> 01:20:20,960
we have them you know within a couple of

2344
01:20:24,790 --> 01:20:23,199
feet of one of the rumors is you know

2345
01:20:26,149 --> 01:20:24,800
and i heard these these things to people

2346
01:20:28,229 --> 01:20:26,159
who would talk to

2347
01:20:29,510 --> 01:20:28,239
people there and stuff they could do all

2348
01:20:32,229 --> 01:20:29,520
that kind of stuff but that's not how it

2349
01:20:34,709 --> 01:20:32,239
works it's this slow thing where they

2350
01:20:37,189 --> 01:20:34,719
control the release and they're

2351
01:20:39,110 --> 01:20:37,199
basically because if they come out and

2352
01:20:40,630 --> 01:20:39,120
release all the facts then it's what i'm

2353
01:20:42,229 --> 01:20:40,640
doing the non-fiction disclosure you

2354
01:20:43,590 --> 01:20:42,239
just drop the document you put it out

2355
01:20:45,270 --> 01:20:43,600
there and everybody decides for

2356
01:20:46,550 --> 01:20:45,280
themselves it's the real document but

2357
01:20:48,390 --> 01:20:46,560
what they're doing is these these sort

2358
01:20:50,229 --> 01:20:48,400
of spinning documents so that when they

2359
01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:50,239
get wherever they're going to congress

2360
01:20:53,510 --> 01:20:52,000
they can say

2361
01:20:55,189 --> 01:20:53,520
this is what these documents mean they

2362
01:20:56,709 --> 01:20:55,199
can change the thing because nobody can

2363
01:20:58,470 --> 01:20:56,719
control it they they control the

2364
01:20:59,350 --> 01:20:58,480
narrative if that all the documents get

2365
01:21:01,270 --> 01:20:59,360
released they don't control the

2366
01:21:03,350 --> 01:21:01,280
narrative anymore this way they can sort

2367
01:21:05,350 --> 01:21:03,360
of spin release what documents they want

2368
01:21:06,790 --> 01:21:05,360
to congress and make it look whatever

2369
01:21:08,630 --> 01:21:06,800
they want like this helicopter thing

2370
01:21:10,149 --> 01:21:08,640
from italy this nonsense saying you know

2371
01:21:12,149 --> 01:21:10,159
they shot down the helicopter this is

2372
01:21:14,070 --> 01:21:12,159
total nonsense thing and they can do

2373
01:21:15,669 --> 01:21:14,080
that kind of stuff because congress

2374
01:21:17,750 --> 01:21:15,679
doesn't know they haven't got a foggiest

2375
01:21:20,390 --> 01:21:17,760
notion and it's all got to do with this

2376
01:21:23,189 --> 01:21:20,400
funding thing in in getting this funding

2377
01:21:25,350 --> 01:21:23,199
and so this helps them

2378
01:21:26,830 --> 01:21:25,360
why do you do this right at the break

2379
01:21:29,430 --> 01:21:26,840
the the

2380
01:21:31,510 --> 01:21:29,440
italian okay grant stay right there

2381
01:21:34,229 --> 01:21:31,520
let's take our break and we'll continue

2382
01:21:36,310 --> 01:21:34,239
when we come back our guest tonight

2383
01:21:39,510 --> 01:21:36,320
grant cameron we've got a lot i want to

2384
01:21:42,870 --> 01:21:39,520
get back to the will miller letter uh we

2385
01:21:45,350 --> 01:21:42,880
will do that and italian air force

2386
01:21:46,630 --> 01:21:45,360
shooting getting shot to it helicopters

2387
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:46,640
we'll do all of that when we come back

2388
01:22:08,229 --> 01:22:06,709
[Music]

2389
01:22:11,110 --> 01:22:08,239
welcome back fade to black i'm your host

2390
01:22:13,510 --> 01:22:11,120
jimmy church

2391
01:22:16,149 --> 01:22:13,520
texting emails

2392
01:22:19,350 --> 01:22:16,159
phone calls during the breaks this is uh

2393
01:22:21,270 --> 01:22:19,360
an absolutely incredibly important show

2394
01:22:23,669 --> 01:22:21,280
tonight and grant i do want to thank you

2395
01:22:25,830 --> 01:22:23,679
in advance for for taking the time to do

2396
01:22:28,070 --> 01:22:25,840
this you and i have been talking about

2397
01:22:30,550 --> 01:22:28,080
doing this show for months

2398
01:22:32,709 --> 01:22:30,560
and uh we finally pulled it off and i do

2399
01:22:35,350 --> 01:22:32,719
want to thank you um

2400
01:22:37,270 --> 01:22:35,360
a couple of points here uh i want to get

2401
01:22:40,310 --> 01:22:37,280
directly to

2402
01:22:41,990 --> 01:22:40,320
the will miller letter and i did speak

2403
01:22:42,950 --> 01:22:42,000
uh to

2404
01:22:45,669 --> 01:22:42,960
uh

2405
01:22:46,790 --> 01:22:45,679
dr greer about this and he said that he

2406
01:22:48,149 --> 01:22:46,800
has got

2407
01:22:53,430 --> 01:22:48,159
uh

2408
01:22:54,709 --> 01:22:53,440
and this is written

2409
01:22:56,629 --> 01:22:54,719
uh

2410
01:22:59,750 --> 01:22:56,639
just like every other email that he has

2411
01:23:02,550 --> 01:22:59,760
gotten from him and and letters so he

2412
01:23:05,030 --> 01:23:02,560
feels that uh the letter is authentic

2413
01:23:06,870 --> 01:23:05,040
not hearing from will directly i don't

2414
01:23:08,950 --> 01:23:06,880
want to hear from other researchers or

2415
01:23:11,669 --> 01:23:08,960
other people out there

2416
01:23:15,189 --> 01:23:11,679
until i hear from will directly or you

2417
01:23:15,910 --> 01:23:15,199
do um you know i i've got career to go

2418
01:23:25,590 --> 01:23:15,920
on

2419
01:23:27,990 --> 01:23:25,600
research

2420
01:23:30,950 --> 01:23:28,000
into ufo crash retrievals and the

2421
01:23:33,669 --> 01:23:30,960
entities within the government or out of

2422
01:23:35,350 --> 01:23:33,679
it outside of it that are involved in

2423
01:23:39,030 --> 01:23:35,360
that business

2424
01:23:41,910 --> 01:23:39,040
that's a that's a huge statement uh to

2425
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:41,920
be making in a letter like this and then

2426
01:23:45,510 --> 01:23:43,440
he continues with

2427
01:23:48,070 --> 01:23:45,520
there must be absolutely no mention or

2428
01:23:50,070 --> 01:23:48,080
association of my name with your work or

2429
01:23:52,629 --> 01:23:50,080
investigation i have absolutely nothing

2430
01:23:56,070 --> 01:23:52,639
to gain from such association at this

2431
01:23:58,870 --> 01:23:56,080
time and possibly much to lose

2432
01:24:01,189 --> 01:23:58,880
a pretty pretty strong statement coming

2433
01:24:02,790 --> 01:24:01,199
from miller and when you read this what

2434
01:24:05,189 --> 01:24:02,800
was your reaction

2435
01:24:06,229 --> 01:24:05,199
well i already knew i already knew about

2436
01:24:08,390 --> 01:24:06,239
um

2437
01:24:10,149 --> 01:24:08,400
miller there's actually an interview

2438
01:24:11,990 --> 01:24:10,159
that stephen greer does with him it's a

2439
01:24:13,669 --> 01:24:12,000
50-minute interview

2440
01:24:15,510 --> 01:24:13,679
i'll probably look it up here and send

2441
01:24:16,950 --> 01:24:15,520
you the link where he interviews will

2442
01:24:19,350 --> 01:24:16,960
miller and will miller goes through the

2443
01:24:22,149 --> 01:24:19,360
whole thing he tells the whole story

2444
01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:22,159
of the briefing and and more he talks

2445
01:24:26,950 --> 01:24:24,480
for 50 minutes about stephen about

2446
01:24:28,790 --> 01:24:26,960
uh how these programs work and he's very

2447
01:24:31,189 --> 01:24:28,800
open about the whole thing so i already

2448
01:24:32,470 --> 01:24:31,199
knew and and that's where he says for

2449
01:24:33,750 --> 01:24:32,480
example and that's one of the things i

2450
01:24:36,229 --> 01:24:33,760
brought up that nobody really paid any

2451
01:24:37,910 --> 01:24:36,239
attention to will miller says and you'll

2452
01:24:39,669 --> 01:24:37,920
see in but the thing that was important

2453
01:24:42,390 --> 01:24:39,679
to me was the mj-12 thing which means

2454
01:24:44,950 --> 01:24:42,400
that it's all been real all the the bill

2455
01:24:46,950 --> 01:24:44,960
more all that stuff it was all planned

2456
01:24:48,709 --> 01:24:46,960
and so will miller says in this

2457
01:24:50,950 --> 01:24:48,719
interview with stephen greer

2458
01:24:53,110 --> 01:24:50,960
he says um he talks about how they keep

2459
01:24:54,709 --> 01:24:53,120
postponing and because uh

2460
01:24:55,990 --> 01:24:54,719
edgar mitchell had to take an interview

2461
01:24:58,070 --> 01:24:56,000
in new york that's why the thing shut

2462
01:25:00,870 --> 01:24:58,080
down otherwise would have kept going for

2463
01:25:02,709 --> 01:25:00,880
whatever another hour or two and he said

2464
01:25:04,149 --> 01:25:02,719
and as i'm leaving

2465
01:25:06,629 --> 01:25:04,159
um

2466
01:25:07,590 --> 01:25:06,639
david wilson's assistant comes up to me

2467
01:25:08,629 --> 01:25:07,600
and says

2468
01:25:10,550 --> 01:25:08,639
you know you guys were talking about

2469
01:25:12,470 --> 01:25:10,560
that mj12 thing

2470
01:25:14,629 --> 01:25:12,480
uh yeah we know about that he says but

2471
01:25:17,430 --> 01:25:14,639
we don't we here at the joint chiefs of

2472
01:25:19,030 --> 01:25:17,440
staff do not have a need to know as to

2473
01:25:21,030 --> 01:25:19,040
what they're doing so will miller says

2474
01:25:23,350 --> 01:25:21,040
this right on on on on this interview

2475
01:25:25,750 --> 01:25:23,360
with stephen greer he's been pretty open

2476
01:25:27,590 --> 01:25:25,760
now he has to run i think even in the in

2477
01:25:29,430 --> 01:25:27,600
the letter there i think it says someone

2478
01:25:30,629 --> 01:25:29,440
had said oh he had he had made a denial

2479
01:25:33,189 --> 01:25:30,639
or something like that

2480
01:25:35,270 --> 01:25:33,199
but um in the letter he actually says if

2481
01:25:38,070 --> 01:25:35,280
i am confronted if this leaks and i am

2482
01:25:39,430 --> 01:25:38,080
confronted i will deny it so but will

2483
01:25:41,430 --> 01:25:39,440
miller if you look at this listening

2484
01:25:43,510 --> 01:25:41,440
interview with stephen grier it is

2485
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:43,520
really open i mean he tells all sorts of

2486
01:25:47,990 --> 01:25:45,440
bizarre stories about stuff the

2487
01:25:51,270 --> 01:25:48,000
government's been doing very very open

2488
01:25:53,430 --> 01:25:51,280
and uh in closing

2489
01:25:56,390 --> 01:25:53,440
and this is for me one of the most

2490
01:25:57,669 --> 01:25:56,400
interesting parts of of all of this

2491
01:25:59,990 --> 01:25:57,679
document

2492
01:26:03,110 --> 01:26:00,000
was he's trying to chase down this

2493
01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:03,120
pepper spray company right

2494
01:26:06,229 --> 01:26:04,239
and

2495
01:26:08,950 --> 01:26:06,239
that of all things has nothing to do

2496
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:08,960
with ufos or anything like that

2497
01:26:13,510 --> 01:26:09,840
but

2498
01:26:14,790 --> 01:26:13,520
that makes this for me authentic

2499
01:26:19,910 --> 01:26:14,800
that

2500
01:26:21,990 --> 01:26:19,920
in the letter unless

2501
01:26:24,310 --> 01:26:22,000
it's real right what did you think about

2502
01:26:25,590 --> 01:26:24,320
this pepper spray company well as i said

2503
01:26:27,430 --> 01:26:25,600
i didn't read that part of the document

2504
01:26:29,430 --> 01:26:27,440
but that is that's what you look for in

2505
01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:29,440
documents you look for things that

2506
01:26:33,430 --> 01:26:32,159
that um can be substantiated either by

2507
01:26:34,870 --> 01:26:33,440
something you know that nobody else

2508
01:26:37,669 --> 01:26:34,880
knows that was the whole thing with the

2509
01:26:39,030 --> 01:26:37,679
oak shannon thing and the mj-12 thing

2510
01:26:41,270 --> 01:26:39,040
that i knew that

2511
01:26:42,470 --> 01:26:41,280
that will miller confirmed this but

2512
01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:42,480
those kind of things is what you look

2513
01:26:47,110 --> 01:26:44,960
for you look for things that

2514
01:26:49,750 --> 01:26:47,120
if you're going to hoax a document

2515
01:26:51,590 --> 01:26:49,760
it's usually pretty obvious where they

2516
01:26:53,350 --> 01:26:51,600
you know you know you try to keep it to

2517
01:26:55,270 --> 01:26:53,360
the point and and you have things that

2518
01:26:57,270 --> 01:26:55,280
are wrong you can sort of pick up well

2519
01:26:58,470 --> 01:26:57,280
you know this never happened or

2520
01:27:01,110 --> 01:26:58,480
stuff like that like the ones that were

2521
01:27:02,950 --> 01:27:01,120
on um chris mellon's website i mean it

2522
01:27:04,790 --> 01:27:02,960
was just like i'll give you an example

2523
01:27:07,110 --> 01:27:04,800
they if you remember the the the story

2524
01:27:09,830 --> 01:27:07,120
of the of the girl okay so they got the

2525
01:27:11,510 --> 01:27:09,840
girl that appeared on unidentified

2526
01:27:12,709 --> 01:27:11,520
and it's like oh we discovered her she's

2527
01:27:15,510 --> 01:27:12,719
coming under and

2528
01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:15,520
you know and you'd have her name and her

2529
01:27:19,030 --> 01:27:17,520
risk her career and you know there's big

2530
01:27:20,870 --> 01:27:19,040
build up stuff like this

2531
01:27:22,229 --> 01:27:20,880
one of the documents that was released

2532
01:27:24,149 --> 01:27:22,239
on this i know if you know those the

2533
01:27:26,149 --> 01:27:24,159
chris mellon story where chris mellon

2534
01:27:27,990 --> 01:27:26,159
has all these documents on his website

2535
01:27:30,950 --> 01:27:28,000
and a guy by the name of twitter jay

2536
01:27:32,870 --> 01:27:30,960
discovers these things and uh he goes

2537
01:27:34,310 --> 01:27:32,880
what the heck is all this stuff on and

2538
01:27:35,990 --> 01:27:34,320
he downloads all these documents or

2539
01:27:38,149 --> 01:27:36,000
whatever and then he sort of makes it

2540
01:27:40,149 --> 01:27:38,159
public and then suddenly ttsa says oh

2541
01:27:42,310 --> 01:27:40,159
his website was hacked and they got

2542
01:27:43,990 --> 01:27:42,320
these these documents off and these have

2543
01:27:45,910 --> 01:27:44,000
all these these bizarre

2544
01:27:48,229 --> 01:27:45,920
documents that have mistakes and the one

2545
01:27:50,870 --> 01:27:48,239
was the where they have this girl so

2546
01:27:53,110 --> 01:27:50,880
they it's a document has this bizarre uh

2547
01:27:55,430 --> 01:27:53,120
classification on the top of it and it

2548
01:27:57,430 --> 01:27:55,440
appears to be like a um

2549
01:27:59,990 --> 01:27:57,440
a report that they're doing on the four

2550
01:28:01,750 --> 01:28:00,000
pilots from the nimitz and so the first

2551
01:28:03,750 --> 01:28:01,760
one is her and it's got her name and all

2552
01:28:05,830 --> 01:28:03,760
the the young guns say oh we we took her

2553
01:28:07,270 --> 01:28:05,840
name out and we were national security

2554
01:28:08,629 --> 01:28:07,280
and we're trying to protect her whatever

2555
01:28:11,590 --> 01:28:08,639
so everybody immediately takes her name

2556
01:28:13,590 --> 01:28:11,600
but in the document they have her name

2557
01:28:14,390 --> 01:28:13,600
they have her phone number they have her

2558
01:28:16,870 --> 01:28:14,400
address

2559
01:28:19,110 --> 01:28:16,880
they have her email they have everything

2560
01:28:21,750 --> 01:28:19,120
so and they have her age and so that's

2561
01:28:24,149 --> 01:28:21,760
pilot number one pilot number two is is

2562
01:28:26,709 --> 01:28:24,159
uh fravor and it says they got fravor

2563
01:28:27,990 --> 01:28:26,719
about 38 years old and maybe in

2564
01:28:29,590 --> 01:28:28,000
massachusetts i can't marry i don't know

2565
01:28:31,030 --> 01:28:29,600
the exact details but it was like all

2566
01:28:32,470 --> 01:28:31,040
the other pilots it was like they didn't

2567
01:28:34,629 --> 01:28:32,480
know how old they were is it maybe 40

2568
01:28:37,350 --> 01:28:34,639
years old maybe 38 maybe lives in

2569
01:28:40,310 --> 01:28:37,360
massachusetts maybe lives in in uh north

2570
01:28:42,070 --> 01:28:40,320
carolina and yet this woman

2571
01:28:43,510 --> 01:28:42,080
everything it's like please i mean i'm

2572
01:28:44,709 --> 01:28:43,520
surprised they didn't supply them with

2573
01:28:45,990 --> 01:28:44,719
the phone to give her the phone call i

2574
01:28:47,830 --> 01:28:46,000
mean that's what they wanted they they

2575
01:28:50,149 --> 01:28:47,840
wanted someone to go after her the new

2576
01:28:52,870 --> 01:28:50,159
the new witness and you see this kind of

2577
01:28:54,629 --> 01:28:52,880
stuff where it's very obvious like the

2578
01:28:56,950 --> 01:28:54,639
the resignation letter where there's no

2579
01:28:58,870 --> 01:28:56,960
date and he misspells deferred

2580
01:29:00,790 --> 01:28:58,880
retirement and and stuff like that where

2581
01:29:02,629 --> 01:29:00,800
you have these sort of obvious things

2582
01:29:03,669 --> 01:29:02,639
where you're going like come on guys i

2583
01:29:05,430 --> 01:29:03,679
mean you're writing a letter to the

2584
01:29:07,189 --> 01:29:05,440
secretary of defense to resign and you

2585
01:29:09,590 --> 01:29:07,199
don't date the thing i mean this is

2586
01:29:11,669 --> 01:29:09,600
crazy stuff so you're right that kind of

2587
01:29:13,510 --> 01:29:11,679
stuff uh you need that's what you look

2588
01:29:15,110 --> 01:29:13,520
for in documents but the way it was

2589
01:29:16,709 --> 01:29:15,120
presented to me

2590
01:29:18,950 --> 01:29:16,719
it was just like it just made sense it's

2591
01:29:20,790 --> 01:29:18,960
like oh okay i mean i that's why i put

2592
01:29:22,790 --> 01:29:20,800
in the thing when i when i posted a

2593
01:29:25,030 --> 01:29:22,800
document on monday i didn't really say

2594
01:29:27,510 --> 01:29:25,040
it i just said do you ever wonder where

2595
01:29:29,030 --> 01:29:27,520
uh edgar mitchell's documents went and

2596
01:29:30,470 --> 01:29:29,040
and that just sort of says like when i

2597
01:29:32,070 --> 01:29:30,480
heard it i go yeah that makes sense i

2598
01:29:33,590 --> 01:29:32,080
mean somebody's

2599
01:29:35,350 --> 01:29:33,600
his documents are there because i'd as i

2600
01:29:38,390 --> 01:29:35,360
said i've gotten five examples i have i

2601
01:29:39,830 --> 01:29:38,400
have an eyes only study for president

2602
01:29:41,990 --> 01:29:39,840
johnson which i still haven't released i

2603
01:29:43,910 --> 01:29:42,000
got 300 pages i was given 100 pages all

2604
01:29:46,149 --> 01:29:43,920
the photographs of this and this was a

2605
01:29:48,709 --> 01:29:46,159
guy by the name of frank rand

2606
01:29:51,590 --> 01:29:48,719
who did a study for president johnson on

2607
01:29:53,910 --> 01:29:51,600
ufos it was an eyes only study and the

2608
01:29:56,310 --> 01:29:53,920
people that were on this eight-member

2609
01:29:58,229 --> 01:29:56,320
committee were the same guys there was

2610
01:30:00,229 --> 01:29:58,239
for example tom delong when he started

2611
01:30:02,870 --> 01:30:00,239
he had robert weiss the head of lockheed

2612
01:30:04,470 --> 01:30:02,880
skunk works well this program that this

2613
01:30:06,070 --> 01:30:04,480
this they were doing the guy was writing

2614
01:30:07,430 --> 01:30:06,080
a book and he dies before he finishes

2615
01:30:08,950 --> 01:30:07,440
the book but he's got this book and he's

2616
01:30:11,750 --> 01:30:08,960
telling the story about running this

2617
01:30:13,830 --> 01:30:11,760
program for ufos for the president he's

2618
01:30:15,430 --> 01:30:13,840
going to put this stuff up and he has uh

2619
01:30:18,550 --> 01:30:15,440
the guy before

2620
01:30:19,669 --> 01:30:18,560
um dan rich um what's this

2621
01:30:21,270 --> 01:30:19,679
the head of lucky's lucky skunkworks

2622
01:30:24,790 --> 01:30:21,280
he's got the same guy he's got the head

2623
01:30:27,110 --> 01:30:24,800
of nro as one of the kelly kelly johnson

2624
01:30:29,590 --> 01:30:27,120
kelly johnson and he has the head of nro

2625
01:30:34,310 --> 01:30:29,600
and and tom delong has a general from

2626
01:30:36,070 --> 01:30:34,320
nro he has um uh art lundall who was the

2627
01:30:38,229 --> 01:30:36,080
guy before kit green

2628
01:30:39,910 --> 01:30:38,239
he has it's this it's like the if you're

2629
01:30:42,149 --> 01:30:39,920
gonna run a ufo program you need the

2630
01:30:44,790 --> 01:30:42,159
head of uh lockheed skunk works you need

2631
01:30:46,950 --> 01:30:44,800
uh the the uh the head of the weird desk

2632
01:30:49,669 --> 01:30:46,960
at the cia you need and they had a they

2633
01:30:50,950 --> 01:30:49,679
had a a four-star general the long i

2634
01:30:52,390 --> 01:30:50,960
think only had a two-star journal they

2635
01:30:53,510 --> 01:30:52,400
had a four-star general from wright

2636
01:30:55,430 --> 01:30:53,520
patterson air force base on this

2637
01:30:58,070 --> 01:30:55,440
committee and this was and that came out

2638
01:30:59,270 --> 01:30:58,080
of a same thing someone dies his niece

2639
01:31:01,030 --> 01:30:59,280
picks up these documents she doesn't

2640
01:31:02,470 --> 01:31:01,040
know what to do with them the the ones i

2641
01:31:03,910 --> 01:31:02,480
got from douglas aircraft it was the

2642
01:31:05,350 --> 01:31:03,920
only time i've never i've never been

2643
01:31:06,790 --> 01:31:05,360
threatened and i never had anybody come

2644
01:31:08,229 --> 01:31:06,800
to me and say i'm a whistleblower i'm

2645
01:31:09,910 --> 01:31:08,239
going to violate my security clearance

2646
01:31:11,510 --> 01:31:09,920
and i'm going to tell you everything and

2647
01:31:14,070 --> 01:31:11,520
and so when this guy came to me with the

2648
01:31:15,830 --> 01:31:14,080
douglas aircraft documents he said okay

2649
01:31:17,910 --> 01:31:15,840
he gave his first name i can't tell you

2650
01:31:19,110 --> 01:31:17,920
my last name and i'm going oh yeah right

2651
01:31:20,870 --> 01:31:19,120
finally i've got somebody who's going to

2652
01:31:22,950 --> 01:31:20,880
leak me some documents from you know

2653
01:31:24,310 --> 01:31:22,960
from the from the government and and i

2654
01:31:25,510 --> 01:31:24,320
as i started questioning them i said

2655
01:31:26,870 --> 01:31:25,520
well why are you not in jail that's the

2656
01:31:28,470 --> 01:31:26,880
obvious question you gotta ask somebody

2657
01:31:30,149 --> 01:31:28,480
if they say this is classified material

2658
01:31:31,430 --> 01:31:30,159
and i'm telling you the obvious question

2659
01:31:33,669 --> 01:31:31,440
is well why are you not in jail i mean

2660
01:31:35,590 --> 01:31:33,679
it's classified you you took an oath to

2661
01:31:37,430 --> 01:31:35,600
uphold the constitution and obey the law

2662
01:31:38,790 --> 01:31:37,440
like why are you coming to me to release

2663
01:31:40,950 --> 01:31:38,800
the most classified material in the

2664
01:31:43,189 --> 01:31:40,960
world and so um

2665
01:31:44,390 --> 01:31:43,199
finally the guy says oh no they're not

2666
01:31:47,430 --> 01:31:44,400
government documents they're from

2667
01:31:50,470 --> 01:31:47,440
douglas aircraft and it was run by rob

2668
01:31:52,310 --> 01:31:50,480
bob wood and um this was he went to

2669
01:31:53,669 --> 01:31:52,320
douglas aircraft and he said either

2670
01:31:54,709 --> 01:31:53,679
boeing's going to discover this thing or

2671
01:31:56,070 --> 01:31:54,719
we're going to discover this thing and

2672
01:31:58,149 --> 01:31:56,080
they gave him a half million dollars and

2673
01:31:59,510 --> 01:31:58,159
they had a guy doing regressions on

2674
01:32:01,430 --> 01:31:59,520
people to try to find what did aliens

2675
01:32:02,629 --> 01:32:01,440
tell you how this propulsion thing and

2676
01:32:04,550 --> 01:32:02,639
so douglas is trying to figure out how

2677
01:32:06,310 --> 01:32:04,560
this the propulsion system is working

2678
01:32:08,310 --> 01:32:06,320
and what happens is the guide is doing

2679
01:32:09,669 --> 01:32:08,320
the regressions so everybody's got same

2680
01:32:12,149 --> 01:32:09,679
thing everybody's got a copy of these

2681
01:32:13,590 --> 01:32:12,159
documents all these 280 pages of

2682
01:32:15,990 --> 01:32:13,600
documents and the guy that's doing the

2683
01:32:18,470 --> 01:32:16,000
regression dies and he lives in

2684
01:32:20,550 --> 01:32:18,480
washington and he has a his a farm and

2685
01:32:21,830 --> 01:32:20,560
the doc the documents are in the barn

2686
01:32:23,350 --> 01:32:21,840
and then the guy that buys the bar and

2687
01:32:25,189 --> 01:32:23,360
finds these documents and says oh i'm

2688
01:32:27,750 --> 01:32:25,199
going to sell these on ebay so he buy he

2689
01:32:29,510 --> 01:32:27,760
sells them on ebay for 29 bucks and this

2690
01:32:31,430 --> 01:32:29,520
guy comes to me with these documents and

2691
01:32:32,950 --> 01:32:31,440
we put him on a website in in england

2692
01:32:35,270 --> 01:32:32,960
all these documents about douglas

2693
01:32:36,870 --> 01:32:35,280
aircraft doing all this experiment in

2694
01:32:38,149 --> 01:32:36,880
fact stanton friedman was working on

2695
01:32:39,910 --> 01:32:38,159
this project as well and they were

2696
01:32:41,510 --> 01:32:39,920
trying to figure out the mathematics and

2697
01:32:42,390 --> 01:32:41,520
and talk to experiencers and stuff and

2698
01:32:43,990 --> 01:32:42,400
they're trying to figure out how the

2699
01:32:45,350 --> 01:32:44,000
propulsion system worked on this thing

2700
01:32:46,790 --> 01:32:45,360
and then in the end they decided they

2701
01:32:49,030 --> 01:32:46,800
couldn't get anywhere and they dropped

2702
01:32:51,910 --> 01:32:49,040
the program same as the the eyes only

2703
01:32:53,510 --> 01:32:51,920
study for johnson basically they they

2704
01:32:55,910 --> 01:32:53,520
knew nothing according to this study

2705
01:32:57,830 --> 01:32:55,920
they they knew nothing the ufos existed

2706
01:33:00,310 --> 01:32:57,840
but it was um

2707
01:33:01,990 --> 01:33:00,320
uh james mcdonald that was pushing this

2708
01:33:03,430 --> 01:33:02,000
thing he was the guy and i've seen his

2709
01:33:06,709 --> 01:33:03,440
files a couple times at the university

2710
01:33:08,070 --> 01:33:06,719
of of uh arizona he was he was friends

2711
01:33:10,310 --> 01:33:08,080
with johnson and he was pushing for a

2712
01:33:14,070 --> 01:33:10,320
ufo study and so johnson and it was

2713
01:33:16,310 --> 01:33:14,080
typical johnson he said uh okay this is

2714
01:33:17,750 --> 01:33:16,320
it now get him off my back and that that

2715
01:33:19,669 --> 01:33:17,760
sounds just like johnson like get this

2716
01:33:21,110 --> 01:33:19,679
guy off my back i'm giving him his study

2717
01:33:22,550 --> 01:33:21,120
and but the study didn't get anywhere

2718
01:33:24,149 --> 01:33:22,560
same as the douglas aircraft study

2719
01:33:25,830 --> 01:33:24,159
didn't get anywhere and that's john

2720
01:33:27,430 --> 01:33:25,840
alexander said they didn't get anywhere

2721
01:33:28,709 --> 01:33:27,440
and then eric davis comes up and says in

2722
01:33:31,189 --> 01:33:28,719
89 they shut it down because they

2723
01:33:33,110 --> 01:33:31,199
couldn't get anywhere and uh over and

2724
01:33:34,950 --> 01:33:33,120
over again i've seen this that more i

2725
01:33:36,390 --> 01:33:34,960
see these sort of documents that really

2726
01:33:38,390 --> 01:33:36,400
nobody knows about

2727
01:33:39,350 --> 01:33:38,400
it's it's like there there may be this

2728
01:33:40,950 --> 01:33:39,360
dark

2729
01:33:42,870 --> 01:33:40,960
uh black

2730
01:33:45,030 --> 01:33:42,880
uh project and that's what's happened so

2731
01:33:46,870 --> 01:33:45,040
the black world that nobody has access

2732
01:33:49,189 --> 01:33:46,880
to even maybe the president can't get

2733
01:33:52,070 --> 01:33:49,199
access to they're running it and it's

2734
01:33:53,830 --> 01:33:52,080
like um so to the stars realize they

2735
01:33:55,510 --> 01:33:53,840
can't get that release they can never

2736
01:33:56,709 --> 01:33:55,520
break through that secrecy they're never

2737
01:33:58,709 --> 01:33:56,719
going to release what the black world

2738
01:34:00,470 --> 01:33:58,719
knows so they make this proposal with

2739
01:34:02,390 --> 01:34:00,480
the black world is okay let's run a

2740
01:34:04,149 --> 01:34:02,400
second program so that's why i say louis

2741
01:34:06,550 --> 01:34:04,159
alzando you say well louis lozano run a

2742
01:34:08,790 --> 01:34:06,560
ufo program or he ran the ufo program no

2743
01:34:11,430 --> 01:34:08,800
he ran a ufo program they probably have

2744
01:34:12,709 --> 01:34:11,440
50 ufo programs and the black world is

2745
01:34:14,629 --> 01:34:12,719
never going to acknowledge to the

2746
01:34:17,110 --> 01:34:14,639
program down at the bottom

2747
01:34:18,310 --> 01:34:17,120
to the a-tip program no we don't need

2748
01:34:19,910 --> 01:34:18,320
your program because we're already

2749
01:34:21,270 --> 01:34:19,920
working on this because that exposes the

2750
01:34:22,870 --> 01:34:21,280
program so you can have all these

2751
01:34:24,629 --> 01:34:22,880
programs they don't know there's all

2752
01:34:26,390 --> 01:34:24,639
these other programs and the guy at the

2753
01:34:28,310 --> 01:34:26,400
top in in the black world is just

2754
01:34:30,709 --> 01:34:28,320
gathering this stuff so you make a deal

2755
01:34:32,950 --> 01:34:30,719
with the black world we won't expose you

2756
01:34:34,390 --> 01:34:32,960
but you give us some material

2757
01:34:36,390 --> 01:34:34,400
that release some of the material from

2758
01:34:39,030 --> 01:34:36,400
the black world so we can convince

2759
01:34:41,669 --> 01:34:39,040
everybody in the in the in the ufo world

2760
01:34:43,510 --> 01:34:41,679
or the the public that this is for real

2761
01:34:44,870 --> 01:34:43,520
then we'll get some white world funding

2762
01:34:47,750 --> 01:34:44,880
and we'll spend some more money because

2763
01:34:49,189 --> 01:34:47,760
we've got 725 billion defense budget

2764
01:34:51,110 --> 01:34:49,199
there's lots of money let's have another

2765
01:34:52,870 --> 01:34:51,120
program and so the black world says okay

2766
01:34:54,709 --> 01:34:52,880
we'll give you this material

2767
01:34:56,229 --> 01:34:54,719
and you can run a second program and

2768
01:34:57,669 --> 01:34:56,239
pretend our program doesn't exist and

2769
01:34:58,709 --> 01:34:57,679
you can bring it into the white world

2770
01:34:59,590 --> 01:34:58,719
because we're not going to give you our

2771
01:35:01,910 --> 01:34:59,600
stuff

2772
01:35:03,830 --> 01:35:01,920
that's exactly how it runs isn't it i

2773
01:35:05,910 --> 01:35:03,840
mean that's a that's a

2774
01:35:08,070 --> 01:35:05,920
it just makes total sense yeah

2775
01:35:09,510 --> 01:35:08,080
everybody's making money like that's why

2776
01:35:11,270 --> 01:35:09,520
and this is this whole thing what's

2777
01:35:12,629 --> 01:35:11,280
happening with this funding and i always

2778
01:35:14,229 --> 01:35:12,639
point this out and people still don't

2779
01:35:16,070 --> 01:35:14,239
listen i was at the eisenhower library a

2780
01:35:17,270 --> 01:35:16,080
number of times and when i went there i

2781
01:35:19,189 --> 01:35:17,280
said oh i'm going to get all the ufo

2782
01:35:20,629 --> 01:35:19,199
documents and i go in there and i book a

2783
01:35:22,470 --> 01:35:20,639
week so i'm going to be in there for a

2784
01:35:24,790 --> 01:35:22,480
week and i'm finished the ufo documents

2785
01:35:26,629 --> 01:35:24,800
like in about 45 minutes i'm going oh my

2786
01:35:28,070 --> 01:35:26,639
good what am i going to do for the next

2787
01:35:30,310 --> 01:35:28,080
four days so then they have these oral

2788
01:35:32,310 --> 01:35:30,320
histories and and what they have is so

2789
01:35:34,470 --> 01:35:32,320
so jimmy church is the is the president

2790
01:35:35,750 --> 01:35:34,480
the chef for the president so then they

2791
01:35:37,590 --> 01:35:35,760
come to jimmy church and say jimmy what

2792
01:35:38,709 --> 01:35:37,600
was it like to be the the chef did the

2793
01:35:39,830 --> 01:35:38,719
president ever come in at three o'clock

2794
01:35:41,350 --> 01:35:39,840
in the morning and steal food what was

2795
01:35:42,709 --> 01:35:41,360
his favorite food and they interviewed

2796
01:35:44,310 --> 01:35:42,719
these these exit interviews and they

2797
01:35:45,270 --> 01:35:44,320
wanted all these people who worked for

2798
01:35:46,390 --> 01:35:45,280
the president what would like to work

2799
01:35:48,229 --> 01:35:46,400
for the president they're called oral

2800
01:35:49,149 --> 01:35:48,239
histories so there was all this

2801
01:35:51,189 --> 01:35:49,159
controversy about the

2802
01:35:53,350 --> 01:35:51,199
military-industrial complex beware the

2803
01:35:55,110 --> 01:35:53,360
military-industrial complex so i look it

2804
01:35:57,189 --> 01:35:55,120
up because it's all indexed by people

2805
01:35:58,709 --> 01:35:57,199
and it's in by by subject and i at the

2806
01:36:00,149 --> 01:35:58,719
point i haven't been there for 10 years

2807
01:36:02,149 --> 01:36:00,159
but i actually looked and there was

2808
01:36:03,590 --> 01:36:02,159
actually seven people including the

2809
01:36:05,030 --> 01:36:03,600
president's brother milton eisenhower

2810
01:36:06,629 --> 01:36:05,040
who actually talked about this speech

2811
01:36:08,149 --> 01:36:06,639
and they all asked them they said

2812
01:36:09,270 --> 01:36:08,159
so what do you what do you think that

2813
01:36:10,390 --> 01:36:09,280
meant what do you think he was talking

2814
01:36:12,149 --> 01:36:10,400
about with the military-industrial

2815
01:36:13,390 --> 01:36:12,159
complex and they all said the same thing

2816
01:36:16,430 --> 01:36:13,400
they all said it wasn't the

2817
01:36:18,629 --> 01:36:16,440
military-industrial complex it was the

2818
01:36:21,270 --> 01:36:18,639
military-industrial congressional

2819
01:36:23,110 --> 01:36:21,280
complex and they had pulled the

2820
01:36:25,110 --> 01:36:23,120
congressional thing out of the speech at

2821
01:36:27,430 --> 01:36:25,120
the very last second because they didn't

2822
01:36:29,430 --> 01:36:27,440
want to offend congress so the speeches

2823
01:36:31,430 --> 01:36:29,440
be where the military industrial

2824
01:36:33,189 --> 01:36:31,440
congressional complex and the way it

2825
01:36:35,590 --> 01:36:33,199
works is what they're doing now is you

2826
01:36:37,270 --> 01:36:35,600
tie it into congress so you get a bunch

2827
01:36:38,870 --> 01:36:37,280
of senators who've got jobs in their

2828
01:36:40,709 --> 01:36:38,880
district and then you're never going to

2829
01:36:42,870 --> 01:36:40,719
shut this thing down the prime example

2830
01:36:44,390 --> 01:36:42,880
they have is the abrams tank there's a

2831
01:36:46,709 --> 01:36:44,400
actually a funny article is written it's

2832
01:36:49,189 --> 01:36:46,719
like thanks but no tanks and they could

2833
01:36:52,229 --> 01:36:49,199
not stop them from building abram tanks

2834
01:36:54,070 --> 01:36:52,239
because you had people with jobs so once

2835
01:36:56,310 --> 01:36:54,080
you get the congress involved and you

2836
01:36:57,750 --> 01:36:56,320
get this loop of money the congress is

2837
01:37:00,470 --> 01:36:57,760
making money their people are making

2838
01:37:02,070 --> 01:37:00,480
money the the the contractors are making

2839
01:37:04,310 --> 01:37:02,080
money the lobbyists are making money

2840
01:37:06,470 --> 01:37:04,320
it's this vicious circle that he said

2841
01:37:07,750 --> 01:37:06,480
beware this thing you're never going to

2842
01:37:09,189 --> 01:37:07,760
shut it down and it just gets bigger and

2843
01:37:11,030 --> 01:37:09,199
bigger and bigger and bigger and that's

2844
01:37:12,470 --> 01:37:11,040
why they're tying it into congress

2845
01:37:14,550 --> 01:37:12,480
because once it's in congress and the

2846
01:37:15,510 --> 01:37:14,560
money's there then people's jobs are at

2847
01:37:18,870 --> 01:37:15,520
stake and you're never going to be able

2848
01:37:21,910 --> 01:37:18,880
to shut it down greer said on monday's

2849
01:37:24,950 --> 01:37:21,920
show uh the same thing in that

2850
01:37:27,669 --> 01:37:24,960
the way that the mainstream media is

2851
01:37:31,189 --> 01:37:27,679
prepping the fear spin

2852
01:37:33,030 --> 01:37:31,199
right the fear spin is is how they are

2853
01:37:35,750 --> 01:37:33,040
going to push this through

2854
01:37:37,590 --> 01:37:35,760
and continue funding and both the usaps

2855
01:37:38,629 --> 01:37:37,600
and the saps and with the military in

2856
01:37:40,310 --> 01:37:38,639
general

2857
01:37:42,790 --> 01:37:40,320
yeah then they've done that before john

2858
01:37:45,189 --> 01:37:42,800
alexander actually openly admits that he

2859
01:37:46,470 --> 01:37:45,199
did the same thing in the 1980s he said

2860
01:37:48,550 --> 01:37:46,480
you you got to play the game because

2861
01:37:51,590 --> 01:37:48,560
that's you're never going to sell it you

2862
01:37:53,669 --> 01:37:51,600
hold the idea in business or in lobbying

2863
01:37:55,510 --> 01:37:53,679
is you find a need and fill it so you

2864
01:37:57,270 --> 01:37:55,520
have to have a need and during the if

2865
01:37:59,430 --> 01:37:57,280
you can go back to leslie kane during

2866
01:38:00,390 --> 01:37:59,440
the obama administration she was writing

2867
01:38:02,310 --> 01:38:00,400
articles

2868
01:38:04,550 --> 01:38:02,320
she was working with john podesta and

2869
01:38:06,310 --> 01:38:04,560
then podesta joined tom delong but

2870
01:38:08,070 --> 01:38:06,320
during that day they had the different

2871
01:38:10,149 --> 01:38:08,080
spin they said oh it's a threat to

2872
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:10,159
commercial airlines but nobody bought it

2873
01:38:13,510 --> 01:38:11,679
it's like congress go oh forget it you

2874
01:38:14,550 --> 01:38:13,520
know i don't believe that garbage and so

2875
01:38:16,310 --> 01:38:14,560
what you want to do and that's where

2876
01:38:18,390 --> 01:38:16,320
this thing comes with this this whole

2877
01:38:20,550 --> 01:38:18,400
deal that they're looking for this uh

2878
01:38:22,229 --> 01:38:20,560
sort of the the ultimate sort of the

2879
01:38:23,990 --> 01:38:22,239
evil alien thing and that's where this

2880
01:38:25,270 --> 01:38:24,000
thing came with where tom delong puts

2881
01:38:26,790 --> 01:38:25,280
this this tweet out and you haven't

2882
01:38:29,990 --> 01:38:26,800
heard about this where he tweets this

2883
01:38:32,149 --> 01:38:30,000
thing about uh already he said uh what

2884
01:38:34,229 --> 01:38:32,159
if i was briefed by a italian tele

2885
01:38:35,270 --> 01:38:34,239
intelligence and one thing he does tom

2886
01:38:37,030 --> 01:38:35,280
does it all the time and i don't know

2887
01:38:39,510 --> 01:38:37,040
why they do it but it's part of the plan

2888
01:38:42,229 --> 01:38:39,520
of how you do it so you put up a tweet

2889
01:38:43,750 --> 01:38:42,239
for 15 minutes and then you pull it down

2890
01:38:45,109 --> 01:38:43,760
and it does it over and again so this

2891
01:38:46,790 --> 01:38:45,119
one was put up for a couple minutes then

2892
01:38:49,109 --> 01:38:46,800
he pulled it down what if i was briefed

2893
01:38:50,790 --> 01:38:49,119
by italian intelligence that a ufo shot

2894
01:38:53,189 --> 01:38:50,800
down a military helicopter out of the

2895
01:38:55,270 --> 01:38:53,199
sky and there were pics of the ufo

2896
01:38:57,030 --> 01:38:55,280
chasing the helicopter like

2897
01:38:58,870 --> 01:38:57,040
you need to chase the helicopter get a

2898
01:39:01,109 --> 01:38:58,880
little piper cup can chase a helicopter

2899
01:39:03,910 --> 01:39:01,119
along with a formal italian intelligence

2900
01:39:06,229 --> 01:39:03,920
report and what if uh it's all on the

2901
01:39:08,229 --> 01:39:06,239
second episodes that the next two

2902
01:39:10,229 --> 01:39:08,239
episodes of my show unidentified on the

2903
01:39:12,070 --> 01:39:10,239
history channel for you to see airing

2904
01:39:13,830 --> 01:39:12,080
next week would that be of interest to

2905
01:39:15,830 --> 01:39:13,840
you and so this is the whole deal you're

2906
01:39:17,430 --> 01:39:15,840
looking for some sort of evil alien

2907
01:39:18,870 --> 01:39:17,440
thing because you've got to sell it to

2908
01:39:21,189 --> 01:39:18,880
congress you've got to say

2909
01:39:23,350 --> 01:39:21,199
that this is a national security issue

2910
01:39:25,510 --> 01:39:23,360
uh the congress the whole thing with the

2911
01:39:27,430 --> 01:39:25,520
commercial airlines work and i basically

2912
01:39:29,830 --> 01:39:27,440
say the same as grier this is the

2913
01:39:33,030 --> 01:39:29,840
ultimate false flag this is the uh you

2914
01:39:34,790 --> 01:39:33,040
know ultimate trying to rob fork knocks

2915
01:39:37,830 --> 01:39:34,800
the ultimate uh

2916
01:39:39,350 --> 01:39:37,840
cash grab and i say you know when you

2917
01:39:41,990 --> 01:39:39,360
get it when you get them uh you know

2918
01:39:44,470 --> 01:39:42,000
doing a firebombing of tokyo in march

2919
01:39:46,310 --> 01:39:44,480
1945 where they you know incinerated 80

2920
01:39:48,709 --> 01:39:46,320
000 civilians or when they drop an

2921
01:39:50,629 --> 01:39:48,719
atomic bomb give me a call i'll sign the

2922
01:39:52,390 --> 01:39:50,639
evil alien petition until then if you

2923
01:39:54,070 --> 01:39:52,400
got this thing about this helicopter

2924
01:39:57,030 --> 01:39:54,080
thing and the the italians because i

2925
01:39:59,990 --> 01:39:57,040
know paula harris and i know uh

2926
01:40:02,149 --> 01:40:00,000
um mauricio bayata who used to be the

2927
01:40:03,590 --> 01:40:02,159
editor of open minds and he's in italy i

2928
01:40:05,030 --> 01:40:03,600
went to them and i saw they were talking

2929
01:40:07,590 --> 01:40:05,040
about this and they were going what is

2930
01:40:09,350 --> 01:40:07,600
tom delong doing he's twisted a story

2931
01:40:12,550 --> 01:40:09,360
and and they basically go into this

2932
01:40:15,510 --> 01:40:12,560
story that uh basically it was a a

2933
01:40:17,229 --> 01:40:15,520
helicopter uh and it was the

2934
01:40:18,950 --> 01:40:17,239
coron

2935
01:40:20,070 --> 01:40:18,960
c-o-r-o-n-i-a is where this thing

2936
01:40:23,030 --> 01:40:20,080
happened and there was an

2937
01:40:24,870 --> 01:40:23,040
electromagnetic pulse and the helicopter

2938
01:40:26,310 --> 01:40:24,880
was forced to land and they claimed

2939
01:40:28,950 --> 01:40:26,320
there was a ufo there it didn't shoot

2940
01:40:31,510 --> 01:40:28,960
down the helicopter uh and the the

2941
01:40:33,189 --> 01:40:31,520
report that came out of italy was that

2942
01:40:34,390 --> 01:40:33,199
it may have been a military thing this

2943
01:40:36,950 --> 01:40:34,400
may have been some sort of military

2944
01:40:38,950 --> 01:40:36,960
thing that forced this helicopter to

2945
01:40:40,790 --> 01:40:38,960
land nobody was injured and what you do

2946
01:40:42,709 --> 01:40:40,800
is you take this and when they went to

2947
01:40:44,950 --> 01:40:42,719
italy they were looking for this kind of

2948
01:40:46,950 --> 01:40:44,960
stuff and from what when i'm told the

2949
01:40:48,629 --> 01:40:46,960
navy admiral actually they went to a

2950
01:40:50,229 --> 01:40:48,639
barracks they didn't stay in a hotel

2951
01:40:52,629 --> 01:40:50,239
when lou alexander and de long went

2952
01:40:54,550 --> 01:40:52,639
there they stayed in in a barracks and

2953
01:40:56,629 --> 01:40:54,560
they were talking to a neighbor admiral

2954
01:40:58,070 --> 01:40:56,639
and he told him this story and so this

2955
01:40:59,189 --> 01:40:58,080
story is being twisted now it's it's

2956
01:41:00,950 --> 01:40:59,199
turned from

2957
01:41:03,590 --> 01:41:00,960
an electromagnetic pulse that made this

2958
01:41:05,669 --> 01:41:03,600
helicopter land to an alien chasing

2959
01:41:07,189 --> 01:41:05,679
across the sky and i actually on my

2960
01:41:09,189 --> 01:41:07,199
presidential ufo facebook site it was

2961
01:41:11,109 --> 01:41:09,199
kind of weird because i i had a friend

2962
01:41:12,950 --> 01:41:11,119
of mine he's an experiencer from great

2963
01:41:14,550 --> 01:41:12,960
britain his name is tony bentz and he

2964
01:41:15,830 --> 01:41:14,560
was involved in his whole feather thing

2965
01:41:16,950 --> 01:41:15,840
and he was showing he wanted to show me

2966
01:41:19,109 --> 01:41:16,960
all these photographs of these

2967
01:41:21,510 --> 01:41:19,119
helicopters like they're like 50 feet

2968
01:41:23,270 --> 01:41:21,520
over his head and ufos in the helicopter

2969
01:41:25,270 --> 01:41:23,280
photographs so i started posting this

2970
01:41:27,030 --> 01:41:25,280
because this whole thing with tom delong

2971
01:41:28,950 --> 01:41:27,040
like i've got pictures of ufos and

2972
01:41:31,430 --> 01:41:28,960
helicopters together as well and nobody

2973
01:41:33,430 --> 01:41:31,440
got shot down no no no helicopters were

2974
01:41:35,109 --> 01:41:33,440
injured no animals were injured and

2975
01:41:38,229 --> 01:41:35,119
people started posting all these

2976
01:41:40,390 --> 01:41:38,239
photographs on my facebook site of ufos

2977
01:41:42,550 --> 01:41:40,400
and and and helicopters and was almost

2978
01:41:44,149 --> 01:41:42,560
like i mean is anybody got a helicopter

2979
01:41:46,629 --> 01:41:44,159
photograph without a ufo in it it was

2980
01:41:48,390 --> 01:41:46,639
just really weird it's a very common

2981
01:41:51,030 --> 01:41:48,400
thing based upon all these people that

2982
01:41:51,990 --> 01:41:51,040
were posting on my facebook site is it

2983
01:41:53,189 --> 01:41:52,000
that

2984
01:41:55,350 --> 01:41:53,199
uh

2985
01:41:58,229 --> 01:41:55,360
because this is important here where

2986
01:42:01,030 --> 01:41:58,239
we're talking about disinformation or

2987
01:42:02,790 --> 01:42:01,040
the spinning of a story or using the

2988
01:42:04,149 --> 01:42:02,800
mainstream media or in this case the

2989
01:42:07,990 --> 01:42:04,159
history channel

2990
01:42:11,270 --> 01:42:08,000
uh to project a certain

2991
01:42:13,910 --> 01:42:11,280
situation right a certain mindset here

2992
01:42:15,830 --> 01:42:13,920
in in the case of ufos are something to

2993
01:42:18,550 --> 01:42:15,840
be afraid of right now and especially

2994
01:42:22,550 --> 01:42:18,560
with our military but is it is this a

2995
01:42:26,149 --> 01:42:22,560
case of that or is it a case of ttsa and

2996
01:42:28,470 --> 01:42:26,159
de long not vetting this story correctly

2997
01:42:30,629 --> 01:42:28,480
and and getting the truth out or you

2998
01:42:33,590 --> 01:42:30,639
know just listening to somebody spin any

2999
01:42:35,430 --> 01:42:33,600
story at some ufo conference over in

3000
01:42:36,709 --> 01:42:35,440
italy which is probably how this went

3001
01:42:38,709 --> 01:42:36,719
down anyway

3002
01:42:41,590 --> 01:42:38,719
you know i i don't understand because

3003
01:42:42,550 --> 01:42:41,600
it's so easy to get the real story isn't

3004
01:42:44,390 --> 01:42:42,560
it grant

3005
01:42:46,790 --> 01:42:44,400
yeah but that's the thing is why why are

3006
01:42:49,189 --> 01:42:46,800
we why are we changing the story to a

3007
01:42:51,030 --> 01:42:49,199
ufo shoot down when the italians are

3008
01:42:53,430 --> 01:42:51,040
going and the words they used were there

3009
01:42:55,350 --> 01:42:53,440
we're totally baffled we're astonished

3010
01:42:57,590 --> 01:42:55,360
that they're doing this like what is he

3011
01:42:58,550 --> 01:42:57,600
doing and but he was on your show and

3012
01:43:00,390 --> 01:42:58,560
i've i've

3013
01:43:02,550 --> 01:43:00,400
promoted this interview you did with tom

3014
01:43:04,550 --> 01:43:02,560
delong and if you remember

3015
01:43:06,070 --> 01:43:04,560
at the end of the second hour you said

3016
01:43:09,270 --> 01:43:06,080
well where what's important where should

3017
01:43:11,030 --> 01:43:09,280
we go and he goes starfish prime yes and

3018
01:43:14,390 --> 01:43:11,040
you and you said to him

3019
01:43:16,229 --> 01:43:14,400
you want to go there and tom says yeah

3020
01:43:18,790 --> 01:43:16,239
and he tells a story about detonating

3021
01:43:21,109 --> 01:43:18,800
this atomic explosion up in the higher

3022
01:43:22,790 --> 01:43:21,119
atmosphere and it brought down this ufo

3023
01:43:24,550 --> 01:43:22,800
and then he says they can't take emps

3024
01:43:25,990 --> 01:43:24,560
and he starts to laugh and then he says

3025
01:43:29,109 --> 01:43:26,000
we're gonna you know these little ankle

3026
01:43:30,870 --> 01:43:29,119
biters well tom has this bias that he

3027
01:43:33,189 --> 01:43:30,880
had any i think maybe even on your show

3028
01:43:34,950 --> 01:43:33,199
but at one of the shows he said uh they

3029
01:43:37,270 --> 01:43:34,960
may not have souls this is his whole

3030
01:43:38,790 --> 01:43:37,280
idea about the about the small grays the

3031
01:43:40,229 --> 01:43:38,800
small grains that they may not have

3032
01:43:42,070 --> 01:43:40,239
souls and so this is this idea of

3033
01:43:44,390 --> 01:43:42,080
separation that that they're not like us

3034
01:43:46,629 --> 01:43:44,400
that they are these bad guys and tom has

3035
01:43:48,709 --> 01:43:46,639
this this thing he has this belief and a

3036
01:43:49,669 --> 01:43:48,719
lot of it is belief it's maybe it's not

3037
01:43:51,350 --> 01:43:49,679
that they're they're doing the

3038
01:43:52,709 --> 01:43:51,360
disinformation thing there's a lot of

3039
01:43:53,990 --> 01:43:52,719
guys who had the whole thing with the

3040
01:43:55,510 --> 01:43:54,000
the people in the pentagon who believe

3041
01:43:57,669 --> 01:43:55,520
it was the devil i mean there's people

3042
01:43:59,669 --> 01:43:57,679
who actually believe that yeah there's

3043
01:44:01,750 --> 01:43:59,679
these uh you know there's evil mexicans

3044
01:44:03,430 --> 01:44:01,760
and there's evil uh you know japanese

3045
01:44:05,109 --> 01:44:03,440
and there's evil north vietnamese and

3046
01:44:07,350 --> 01:44:05,119
these these are belief systems that

3047
01:44:09,510 --> 01:44:07,360
people buy into and what i say is going

3048
01:44:11,669 --> 01:44:09,520
on now this is the colin powell briefing

3049
01:44:14,310 --> 01:44:11,679
this is what's going on now in congress

3050
01:44:17,669 --> 01:44:14,320
is like you went and you go in with

3051
01:44:18,790 --> 01:44:17,679
iraq and iran and you say okay or iraq

3052
01:44:20,070 --> 01:44:18,800
and you say you know they got the

3053
01:44:21,430 --> 01:44:20,080
weapons of mass destruction and here's

3054
01:44:23,830 --> 01:44:21,440
the evidence and this sort of thing and

3055
01:44:25,109 --> 01:44:23,840
you're selling it you're selling a a

3056
01:44:26,790 --> 01:44:25,119
program

3057
01:44:28,709 --> 01:44:26,800
you know find a justification for war

3058
01:44:30,470 --> 01:44:28,719
whatever you want to call it but it

3059
01:44:32,310 --> 01:44:30,480
still comes down to the money thing and

3060
01:44:34,470 --> 01:44:32,320
but i still i believe that a lot of

3061
01:44:36,629 --> 01:44:34,480
these people do believe that there are

3062
01:44:39,109 --> 01:44:36,639
actually evil aliens and i say you know

3063
01:44:41,350 --> 01:44:39,119
you find something uh

3064
01:44:44,229 --> 01:44:41,360
that is equivalent to dropping an atomic

3065
01:44:45,510 --> 01:44:44,239
bomb or something um then i'll start to

3066
01:44:47,590 --> 01:44:45,520
believe it

3067
01:44:50,070 --> 01:44:47,600
in the italians say the same thing as

3068
01:44:51,750 --> 01:44:50,080
jacques vale says the italians say it

3069
01:44:54,550 --> 01:44:51,760
was concluded no threat to national

3070
01:44:55,990 --> 01:44:54,560
security uh when jacques valet talks

3071
01:44:57,750 --> 01:44:56,000
about the the nimitz they're playing up

3072
01:44:59,750 --> 01:44:57,760
the nimitz all this this evil limits i

3073
01:45:01,910 --> 01:44:59,760
mean it was 30 miles off the coast so

3074
01:45:03,270 --> 01:45:01,920
you could say the ufos were fishing in

3075
01:45:04,950 --> 01:45:03,280
in international waters and were

3076
01:45:07,350 --> 01:45:04,960
attacked by f-18s it was in

3077
01:45:09,270 --> 01:45:07,360
international waters and so the question

3078
01:45:11,109 --> 01:45:09,280
is uh you know they're playing this out

3079
01:45:13,189 --> 01:45:11,119
to be like the evil aliens that were

3080
01:45:15,189 --> 01:45:13,199
sort of sitting by the nimitz there and

3081
01:45:17,669 --> 01:45:15,199
jack valet pointed out very clearly he

3082
01:45:19,270 --> 01:45:17,679
said it was 15 years ago get over it i

3083
01:45:20,870 --> 01:45:19,280
mean like no they didn't do anything

3084
01:45:22,629 --> 01:45:20,880
it's like there's no national threat

3085
01:45:23,990 --> 01:45:22,639
john alexander says there's no national

3086
01:45:25,750 --> 01:45:24,000
attack but if you say there's no

3087
01:45:27,669 --> 01:45:25,760
national threat then jimmy you're not

3088
01:45:30,310 --> 01:45:27,679
going to get any funding in congress you

3089
01:45:31,669 --> 01:45:30,320
have to make some sort of thing that's

3090
01:45:32,709 --> 01:45:31,679
going to scare the living daylights out

3091
01:45:35,030 --> 01:45:32,719
of people otherwise you aren't going to

3092
01:45:36,870 --> 01:45:35,040
get any money leslie kane tried it with

3093
01:45:38,950 --> 01:45:36,880
john podesta with the commercial air

3094
01:45:40,870 --> 01:45:38,960
traffic and it didn't work and so you're

3095
01:45:42,310 --> 01:45:40,880
going to go this route and even if they

3096
01:45:44,229 --> 01:45:42,320
don't believe it like john said i didn't

3097
01:45:46,950 --> 01:45:44,239
believe it but i used the same thing

3098
01:45:49,030 --> 01:45:46,960
back in the 1980s well and it and it

3099
01:45:52,550 --> 01:45:49,040
happened in that

3100
01:45:54,950 --> 01:45:52,560
uh the story from the beginning uh from

3101
01:45:56,550 --> 01:45:54,960
the new york times all the way through

3102
01:45:58,870 --> 01:45:56,560
to today

3103
01:46:02,629 --> 01:45:58,880
was the threat to national security even

3104
01:46:05,350 --> 01:46:02,639
in the elizondo uh uh uh retirement

3105
01:46:07,430 --> 01:46:05,360
letter he brings up you know the heroes

3106
01:46:09,350 --> 01:46:07,440
of of the military that are being

3107
01:46:12,229 --> 01:46:09,360
threatened by this and he's very

3108
01:46:15,910 --> 01:46:12,239
concerned and and it's it's all been

3109
01:46:17,750 --> 01:46:15,920
fear fear fear fear um somebody posted

3110
01:46:20,950 --> 01:46:17,760
uh earlier today we got to take a break

3111
01:46:22,629 --> 01:46:20,960
here in a second but somebody posted uh

3112
01:46:24,950 --> 01:46:22,639
today that

3113
01:46:27,510 --> 01:46:24,960
in nick pope's i think it was nick

3114
01:46:28,390 --> 01:46:27,520
pope's recent fox interview

3115
01:46:32,070 --> 01:46:28,400
that

3116
01:46:32,950 --> 01:46:32,080
they counted the word fear 11 times and

3117
01:46:35,510 --> 01:46:32,960
threat

3118
01:46:37,430 --> 01:46:35,520
right and and and and that i think that

3119
01:46:39,270 --> 01:46:37,440
is the consensus there are some out

3120
01:46:41,270 --> 01:46:39,280
there that would say no

3121
01:46:42,790 --> 01:46:41,280
you know that that that isn't the case

3122
01:46:45,270 --> 01:46:42,800
that they don't have the same feeling

3123
01:46:47,030 --> 01:46:45,280
but that's the vibe that i get

3124
01:46:48,950 --> 01:46:47,040
uh let's take a break right here grant

3125
01:46:52,310 --> 01:46:48,960
let's go into overtime you knew this was

3126
01:46:54,149 --> 01:46:52,320
coming sir so thank you

3127
01:46:55,830 --> 01:46:54,159
yeah we got we got more to do here this

3128
01:46:58,229 --> 01:46:55,840
is fade to black i'm your host jimmy

3129
01:47:03,140 --> 01:46:58,239
church over time with grant cameron when

3130
01:47:03,150 --> 01:47:12,149
[Music]

3131
01:47:15,750 --> 01:47:13,990
welcome back

3132
01:47:17,990 --> 01:47:15,760
heading into overtime

3133
01:47:20,470 --> 01:47:18,000
with grand cameron

3134
01:47:22,790 --> 01:47:20,480
amazing conversation tonight

3135
01:47:23,750 --> 01:47:22,800
so much information here

3136
01:47:27,030 --> 01:47:23,760
and

3137
01:47:29,910 --> 01:47:27,040
grant i i need to uh i need to do this

3138
01:47:31,830 --> 01:47:29,920
uh i want to go to uh page 15 of the

3139
01:47:34,950 --> 01:47:31,840
document because

3140
01:47:37,510 --> 01:47:34,960
uh of this transcription because they're

3141
01:47:40,470 --> 01:47:37,520
talking about uh

3142
01:47:44,550 --> 01:47:40,480
gansler here and

3143
01:47:48,629 --> 01:47:44,560
uh thomas wilson says that gansler said

3144
01:47:50,390 --> 01:47:48,639
ufos are real so-called alien abductions

3145
01:47:51,590 --> 01:47:50,400
not real

3146
01:47:54,950 --> 01:47:51,600
now

3147
01:47:57,590 --> 01:47:54,960
everybody in the community is is uh

3148
01:47:59,109 --> 01:47:57,600
going to this this particular statement

3149
01:48:02,550 --> 01:47:59,119
it's it

3150
01:48:04,070 --> 01:48:02,560
what first off what do you make of it

3151
01:48:05,030 --> 01:48:04,080
well it doesn't make any sense based

3152
01:48:07,510 --> 01:48:05,040
upon

3153
01:48:09,030 --> 01:48:07,520
all the experiences i've talked to

3154
01:48:10,870 --> 01:48:09,040
um

3155
01:48:12,470 --> 01:48:10,880
greer talks about this

3156
01:48:13,910 --> 01:48:12,480
fake alien

3157
01:48:15,590 --> 01:48:13,920
thing and i remember him telling the

3158
01:48:17,510 --> 01:48:15,600
story when he was in it was new york

3159
01:48:20,390 --> 01:48:17,520
where he came back from europe

3160
01:48:24,629 --> 01:48:20,400
and they try to grab him with this

3161
01:48:29,590 --> 01:48:27,430
one of the the things that might be

3162
01:48:31,430 --> 01:48:29,600
involved is

3163
01:48:34,870 --> 01:48:31,440
the plausible liability because the one

3164
01:48:35,750 --> 01:48:34,880
thing you don't have any documents on

3165
01:48:37,430 --> 01:48:35,760
is

3166
01:48:40,070 --> 01:48:37,440
alien abduction stuff i mean there's

3167
01:48:41,990 --> 01:48:40,080
just nothing and that may be

3168
01:48:43,830 --> 01:48:42,000
the highest classified material so it

3169
01:48:45,270 --> 01:48:43,840
may be a thing where

3170
01:48:47,030 --> 01:48:45,280
they're just sort of

3171
01:48:49,270 --> 01:48:47,040
denying this this sort of thing and that

3172
01:48:52,550 --> 01:48:49,280
that fits into greer's scenario that he

3173
01:48:55,189 --> 01:48:52,560
believes that there are no real

3174
01:48:57,270 --> 01:48:55,199
abductions that it's all this military

3175
01:48:58,310 --> 01:48:57,280
black ops stuff

3176
01:48:59,910 --> 01:48:58,320
but

3177
01:49:01,590 --> 01:48:59,920
i've had a lot of conversations and i

3178
01:49:03,109 --> 01:49:01,600
was involved with melinda leslie when

3179
01:49:04,950 --> 01:49:03,119
she first had her contact with jim

3180
01:49:06,950 --> 01:49:04,960
semivan

3181
01:49:08,229 --> 01:49:06,960
and she of course she's into the mill

3182
01:49:09,990 --> 01:49:08,239
lab thing

3183
01:49:11,830 --> 01:49:10,000
and she brought it he actually brought

3184
01:49:13,750 --> 01:49:11,840
it up jim semivan brought it up halfway

3185
01:49:15,350 --> 01:49:13,760
through the their two-hour conversation

3186
01:49:17,109 --> 01:49:15,360
about the mill lab stuff

3187
01:49:19,510 --> 01:49:17,119
and you know melinda she's like you know

3188
01:49:22,310 --> 01:49:19,520
she ain't backing down from anybody and

3189
01:49:25,430 --> 01:49:22,320
she started in on this thing and uh

3190
01:49:27,669 --> 01:49:25,440
he didn't really deny it he said yeah i

3191
01:49:29,990 --> 01:49:27,679
i believe you're telling the truth

3192
01:49:31,669 --> 01:49:30,000
i just don't see

3193
01:49:33,830 --> 01:49:31,679
where they could get the money to do

3194
01:49:36,310 --> 01:49:33,840
this they would need massive amounts of

3195
01:49:38,229 --> 01:49:36,320
money to do this sort of stuff and she

3196
01:49:39,430 --> 01:49:38,239
was sort of going with him and saying

3197
01:49:40,709 --> 01:49:39,440
you know you're out of the loop on this

3198
01:49:44,790 --> 01:49:40,719
thing and this comes down to this idea

3199
01:49:47,750 --> 01:49:44,800
is there an actual really black world

3200
01:49:49,430 --> 01:49:47,760
where even jim semivan can't get to it

3201
01:49:51,270 --> 01:49:49,440
and he can sort of just poke at it and

3202
01:49:53,430 --> 01:49:51,280
try to get stuff so i would follow

3203
01:49:55,030 --> 01:49:53,440
melinda because melinda is is talking to

3204
01:49:56,629 --> 01:49:55,040
him all the time and this is part of the

3205
01:49:58,629 --> 01:49:56,639
conversation they're having

3206
01:50:01,910 --> 01:49:58,639
but i would say the the the alien

3207
01:50:03,590 --> 01:50:01,920
abduction thing is the most

3208
01:50:05,270 --> 01:50:03,600
classified aspect of the whole thing

3209
01:50:06,229 --> 01:50:05,280
maybe even more than the crash saucers

3210
01:50:07,590 --> 01:50:06,239
and all that kind of stuff because you

3211
01:50:10,149 --> 01:50:07,600
really don't see any documents you've

3212
01:50:11,910 --> 01:50:10,159
never seen any documents on uh alien

3213
01:50:12,950 --> 01:50:11,920
abduction stuff you see stuff on

3214
01:50:14,629 --> 01:50:12,960
everything else

3215
01:50:16,390 --> 01:50:14,639
that's just i'm just guessing at that

3216
01:50:18,550 --> 01:50:16,400
but it does tie into the greer thing

3217
01:50:20,310 --> 01:50:18,560
which is is pretty far-fetched that they

3218
01:50:21,750 --> 01:50:20,320
again it comes down to if they're doing

3219
01:50:23,510 --> 01:50:21,760
the stuff where they're they're building

3220
01:50:24,950 --> 01:50:23,520
little aliens and they're

3221
01:50:26,870 --> 01:50:24,960
doing all this kind of stuff like where

3222
01:50:29,109 --> 01:50:26,880
you get the money i mean you'd need you

3223
01:50:31,030 --> 01:50:29,119
know tens of thousands of people and how

3224
01:50:33,189 --> 01:50:31,040
do you keep this all secret to pull to

3225
01:50:34,149 --> 01:50:33,199
do this major operation where you're

3226
01:50:36,149 --> 01:50:34,159
grabbing all these people because if you

3227
01:50:40,310 --> 01:50:36,159
look at the free foundation stuff you

3228
01:50:41,430 --> 01:50:40,320
get um where they got 6 000 and if you

3229
01:50:42,390 --> 01:50:41,440
look at the messages that they're

3230
01:50:44,310 --> 01:50:42,400
getting

3231
01:50:45,990 --> 01:50:44,320
it's only nine percent and i say that's

3232
01:50:48,229 --> 01:50:46,000
not zero but it's getting pretty close

3233
01:50:50,310 --> 01:50:48,239
nine percent believe it's evil so if

3234
01:50:51,430 --> 01:50:50,320
they're doing this evil thing to scare

3235
01:50:52,790 --> 01:50:51,440
people

3236
01:50:54,070 --> 01:50:52,800
the experiencers aren't being very

3237
01:50:55,030 --> 01:50:54,080
scared most of them think it's the

3238
01:50:57,350 --> 01:50:55,040
greatest thing ever happened in their

3239
01:50:59,189 --> 01:50:57,360
life 83 percent of all experiencers say

3240
01:51:00,470 --> 01:50:59,199
if i had the chance to stop it i

3241
01:51:02,310 --> 01:51:00,480
wouldn't stop it they're getting all

3242
01:51:04,070 --> 01:51:02,320
these angelic messages in fact last

3243
01:51:06,390 --> 01:51:04,080
weekend is an interesting story last

3244
01:51:07,189 --> 01:51:06,400
weekend i have this this uh event that i

3245
01:51:08,629 --> 01:51:07,199
host

3246
01:51:10,550 --> 01:51:08,639
on the internet and i bring in

3247
01:51:12,870 --> 01:51:10,560
experiencers because experiences are

3248
01:51:14,950 --> 01:51:12,880
sort of on their own they have nobody to

3249
01:51:16,550 --> 01:51:14,960
talk to so i say okay i have this zoom

3250
01:51:18,550 --> 01:51:16,560
conference uh you can come on you can

3251
01:51:20,149 --> 01:51:18,560
turn off your camera turn off your video

3252
01:51:21,430 --> 01:51:20,159
and a bunch of experiences are going to

3253
01:51:22,790 --> 01:51:21,440
be on there and if you want to talk you

3254
01:51:24,550 --> 01:51:22,800
can talk you don't have to and i had a

3255
01:51:26,950 --> 01:51:24,560
guy from the roosevelt show up from the

3256
01:51:28,790 --> 01:51:26,960
from the from the gimbal and he was on

3257
01:51:30,070 --> 01:51:28,800
the board the ship and i had heard from

3258
01:51:31,270 --> 01:51:30,080
another guy that he was going to come on

3259
01:51:34,070 --> 01:51:31,280
there and told me a little bit about the

3260
01:51:36,790 --> 01:51:34,080
story about the fact that he believed

3261
01:51:38,310 --> 01:51:36,800
that this this encounter these ufos were

3262
01:51:40,310 --> 01:51:38,320
there partly for him that he's part of

3263
01:51:42,310 --> 01:51:40,320
this story he didn't even want to talk i

3264
01:51:44,229 --> 01:51:42,320
tried to go to the story about what

3265
01:51:46,149 --> 01:51:44,239
happened about the video and about the

3266
01:51:47,830 --> 01:51:46,159
ship and all this and was little alzando

3267
01:51:49,430 --> 01:51:47,840
there there's all these rumored stories

3268
01:51:50,229 --> 01:51:49,440
and he you know i don't want to talk

3269
01:51:51,910 --> 01:51:50,239
about that he wanted to talk at the

3270
01:51:53,750 --> 01:51:51,920
message he's putting out a book about

3271
01:51:56,310 --> 01:51:53,760
these messages so if you look at the

3272
01:51:58,070 --> 01:51:56,320
experience or messages it's all very

3273
01:51:59,830 --> 01:51:58,080
positive i mean you get these you know

3274
01:52:02,070 --> 01:51:59,840
75 percent believe reincarnations

3275
01:52:03,350 --> 01:52:02,080
involved uh percent say they've uh

3276
01:52:05,270 --> 01:52:03,360
didn't even answered everything in the

3277
01:52:06,709 --> 01:52:05,280
universe 42 percent they've got these

3278
01:52:08,470 --> 01:52:06,719
downloads that doesn't sound like the

3279
01:52:10,629 --> 01:52:08,480
evil alien thing that they're abducting

3280
01:52:12,229 --> 01:52:10,639
people to scare people because the vast

3281
01:52:13,430 --> 01:52:12,239
majority of people think it's a it's a

3282
01:52:15,830 --> 01:52:13,440
great thing

3283
01:52:17,990 --> 01:52:15,840
it's a kind of a misnomer to think that

3284
01:52:19,430 --> 01:52:18,000
people are abducted people are very very

3285
01:52:21,910 --> 01:52:19,440
scared they're scared the first time

3286
01:52:23,669 --> 01:52:21,920
they get taken the more times this thing

3287
01:52:25,189 --> 01:52:23,679
happens the less fearful to become and

3288
01:52:26,790 --> 01:52:25,199
that's sort of an illusion that these

3289
01:52:28,629 --> 01:52:26,800
people are all scared so it wouldn't

3290
01:52:30,470 --> 01:52:28,639
make sense to be abducting people

3291
01:52:32,229 --> 01:52:30,480
because the messages i'm hearing from

3292
01:52:33,910 --> 01:52:32,239
the experiencers and i say those that

3293
01:52:35,350 --> 01:52:33,920
people got to talk to because those are

3294
01:52:37,669 --> 01:52:35,360
the people that are interacting with

3295
01:52:39,109 --> 01:52:37,679
whatever this intelligence is and

3296
01:52:41,830 --> 01:52:39,119
they're they're getting these messages

3297
01:52:43,430 --> 01:52:41,840
they're getting premonitions they're

3298
01:52:45,030 --> 01:52:43,440
and i say they're getting these drops i

3299
01:52:46,629 --> 01:52:45,040
think the metal the metal has been

3300
01:52:48,629 --> 01:52:46,639
dropped they're we're being given hints

3301
01:52:50,149 --> 01:52:48,639
we're being given all sorts of stuff by

3302
01:52:52,950 --> 01:52:50,159
this intelligence

3303
01:52:54,950 --> 01:52:52,960
i want to talk about the alien uh

3304
01:52:58,709 --> 01:52:54,960
autopsy uh

3305
01:53:00,229 --> 01:52:58,719
leak uh for a couple of reasons one

3306
01:53:01,750 --> 01:53:00,239
uh

3307
01:53:05,270 --> 01:53:01,760
i don't believe

3308
01:53:06,950 --> 01:53:05,280
that that film is even remotely real i

3309
01:53:08,310 --> 01:53:06,960
don't think there's anything real about

3310
01:53:10,070 --> 01:53:08,320
it at all

3311
01:53:12,709 --> 01:53:10,080
that's my opinion

3312
01:53:16,149 --> 01:53:12,719
but kit green uh

3313
01:53:17,270 --> 01:53:16,159
a professional uh pathologist that has

3314
01:53:18,149 --> 01:53:17,280
done

3315
01:53:23,750 --> 01:53:18,159
uh

3316
01:53:26,390 --> 01:53:23,760
autopsies in his life and and is a

3317
01:53:29,030 --> 01:53:26,400
consultant on this with the pentagon and

3318
01:53:32,790 --> 01:53:29,040
probably with the cia as well

3319
01:53:35,030 --> 01:53:32,800
um for him to say that this

3320
01:53:37,910 --> 01:53:35,040
this film is real

3321
01:53:40,229 --> 01:53:37,920
i was i was taken aback by that i

3322
01:53:42,550 --> 01:53:40,239
i'm not going to question kit green's

3323
01:53:45,270 --> 01:53:42,560
eyeballs because i'm i'm i'm that's not

3324
01:53:46,629 --> 01:53:45,280
what i do i'm not in the medical field

3325
01:53:50,550 --> 01:53:46,639
but

3326
01:53:52,950 --> 01:53:50,560
i i i question that for a second

3327
01:53:54,310 --> 01:53:52,960
what did you make of it well

3328
01:53:56,550 --> 01:53:54,320
one of the things i've had a number of

3329
01:53:58,709 --> 01:53:56,560
discussions with with uh dolan like

3330
01:53:59,990 --> 01:53:58,719
we'll we'll hang out at hotel rooms and

3331
01:54:01,830 --> 01:54:00,000
stuff and and we have these

3332
01:54:03,750 --> 01:54:01,840
conversations because we both dealt with

3333
01:54:05,109 --> 01:54:03,760
these guys we'll have these

3334
01:54:06,470 --> 01:54:05,119
conversations where we're almost like

3335
01:54:08,550 --> 01:54:06,480
behavior we're talking about people that

3336
01:54:09,910 --> 01:54:08,560
nobody knows who they are and we're sort

3337
01:54:11,589 --> 01:54:09,920
of telling each other who we're talking

3338
01:54:13,270 --> 01:54:11,599
to and stuff like that and we always

3339
01:54:15,830 --> 01:54:13,280
agreed with kid green so you can say

3340
01:54:17,990 --> 01:54:15,840
okay richard doherty said this or

3341
01:54:19,990 --> 01:54:18,000
right right you know so so-and-so said

3342
01:54:21,910 --> 01:54:20,000
and it's like but when kit green says

3343
01:54:23,589 --> 01:54:21,920
something both of us agreed when kit

3344
01:54:27,030 --> 01:54:23,599
green says something that means

3345
01:54:30,229 --> 01:54:27,040
something kid green is not a type of uh

3346
01:54:32,070 --> 01:54:30,239
never fools around he in fact when dolan

3347
01:54:33,830 --> 01:54:32,080
went to him he didn't deny the document

3348
01:54:36,550 --> 01:54:33,840
he didn't deny the document was real he

3349
01:54:38,310 --> 01:54:36,560
just said they lied to me the doc the

3350
01:54:40,550 --> 01:54:38,320
thing's not real what what they told me

3351
01:54:42,149 --> 01:54:40,560
was he admits that he was told he's just

3352
01:54:44,390 --> 01:54:42,159
saying what they told me was was not

3353
01:54:47,030 --> 01:54:44,400
real the government lied to me so you

3354
01:54:48,709 --> 01:54:47,040
have that plus and you go back to that

3355
01:54:50,790 --> 01:54:48,719
interview you do with richard dolan

3356
01:54:52,870 --> 01:54:50,800
listen to the second part where richard

3357
01:54:54,390 --> 01:54:52,880
asks one of the people

3358
01:54:56,709 --> 01:54:54,400
he says

3359
01:54:59,510 --> 01:54:56,719
what about do we have an alien and they

3360
01:55:01,910 --> 01:54:59,520
and the person says yeah we have one

3361
01:55:04,229 --> 01:55:01,920
that i know of for sure and richard says

3362
01:55:07,430 --> 01:55:04,239
well how do you know because the source

3363
01:55:09,510 --> 01:55:07,440
is impeccable that's kit green he's the

3364
01:55:11,589 --> 01:55:09,520
impeccable source and that's why that

3365
01:55:14,310 --> 01:55:11,599
the other person that richard talked to

3366
01:55:15,510 --> 01:55:14,320
believed that this is for real and i say

3367
01:55:16,950 --> 01:55:15,520
the document's real because that

3368
01:55:19,910 --> 01:55:16,960
actually shows us what we're dealing

3369
01:55:21,750 --> 01:55:19,920
with it's way more than just saying ufos

3370
01:55:23,189 --> 01:55:21,760
exist and that's when when i was going

3371
01:55:24,229 --> 01:55:23,199
to do the original book beyond managing

3372
01:55:25,589 --> 01:55:24,239
magic what i was going to put on the

3373
01:55:28,550 --> 01:55:25,599
back cover is

3374
01:55:30,470 --> 01:55:28,560
do you ever wonder why bob bigelow went

3375
01:55:33,830 --> 01:55:30,480
on 60 minutes and said

3376
01:55:35,910 --> 01:55:33,840
i know for a fact there are aliens here

3377
01:55:37,189 --> 01:55:35,920
and she said well you're afraid i don't

3378
01:55:38,709 --> 01:55:37,199
care what anybody think do you ever

3379
01:55:41,189 --> 01:55:38,719
wonder where he got that if you look at

3380
01:55:43,750 --> 01:55:41,199
the top of that alien autopsy memo that

3381
01:55:45,830 --> 01:55:43,760
memo is addressed to him and it says we

3382
01:55:47,589 --> 01:55:45,840
have an alien and that is why i say

3383
01:55:49,750 --> 01:55:47,599
babagalo had the confidence to go on 60

3384
01:55:52,229 --> 01:55:49,760
minutes and say i know there are aliens

3385
01:55:53,910 --> 01:55:52,239
here i don't care what anybody thinks i

3386
01:55:55,750 --> 01:55:53,920
know for a fact because he believes kit

3387
01:55:57,750 --> 01:55:55,760
green as well and the only reason kit

3388
01:55:59,189 --> 01:55:57,760
green could get out of it after dolan

3389
01:56:01,350 --> 01:55:59,199
approached him was not to deny the

3390
01:56:03,669 --> 01:56:01,360
document exists or no comment he just

3391
01:56:06,070 --> 01:56:03,679
said they lied to me yeah that okay i

3392
01:56:07,030 --> 01:56:06,080
that was there but no they lied to me

3393
01:56:08,070 --> 01:56:07,040
the government lied that's the only way

3394
01:56:10,149 --> 01:56:08,080
you could think and what's he going to

3395
01:56:12,070 --> 01:56:10,159
do i mean security clearance is on right

3396
01:56:15,109 --> 01:56:12,080
on the hook everything he's in he's in a

3397
01:56:16,310 --> 01:56:15,119
box and he's got to think fast well okay

3398
01:56:18,629 --> 01:56:16,320
uh

3399
01:56:20,790 --> 01:56:18,639
you don't believe that the alien autop

3400
01:56:24,229 --> 01:56:20,800
do you think the alien autopsy from the

3401
01:56:26,229 --> 01:56:24,239
ray santilli film is real

3402
01:56:27,830 --> 01:56:26,239
i i i

3403
01:56:29,270 --> 01:56:27,840
would say i didn't believe it until i

3404
01:56:30,390 --> 01:56:29,280
saw the document now i believe it's real

3405
01:56:32,870 --> 01:56:30,400
but there's another thing that you've

3406
01:56:34,870 --> 01:56:32,880
got to realize is there's another story

3407
01:56:36,550 --> 01:56:34,880
and that's the maloney story that was

3408
01:56:39,750 --> 01:56:36,560
told a number of years ago and this is

3409
01:56:41,669 --> 01:56:39,760
this high-level uh photographic guy from

3410
01:56:43,109 --> 01:56:41,679
great britain who tells the story and

3411
01:56:45,189 --> 01:56:43,119
you listen to him tell the story there's

3412
01:56:46,950 --> 01:56:45,199
no way he's lying about the story and he

3413
01:56:48,629 --> 01:56:46,960
when the alien autopsy came out he came

3414
01:56:50,629 --> 01:56:48,639
out and told the story he said i was

3415
01:56:52,229 --> 01:56:50,639
brought to the disney corporation and

3416
01:56:54,790 --> 01:56:52,239
there was this kimbell guy one of the

3417
01:56:57,189 --> 01:56:54,800
nine animators for disney was big time

3418
01:56:58,950 --> 01:56:57,199
in the ufos big time he had all sorts of

3419
01:57:00,470 --> 01:56:58,960
collections and stuff he's the guy that

3420
01:57:02,310 --> 01:57:00,480
went and told the story that disney had

3421
01:57:04,070 --> 01:57:02,320
done the documentary and they'd offered

3422
01:57:05,510 --> 01:57:04,080
him film the same thing they'd offered

3423
01:57:07,430 --> 01:57:05,520
him film and documentaries and at the

3424
01:57:08,950 --> 01:57:07,440
very end they pulled the film and the in

3425
01:57:11,750 --> 01:57:08,960
the video and stuff and he was forced to

3426
01:57:14,629 --> 01:57:11,760
do this documentary and he and and so

3427
01:57:16,790 --> 01:57:14,639
maloney says i was in los angeles and i

3428
01:57:19,030 --> 01:57:16,800
was at the the disney house or wherever

3429
01:57:20,390 --> 01:57:19,040
they had this thing and they sat down we

3430
01:57:22,790 --> 01:57:20,400
want to show you something and they

3431
01:57:26,229 --> 01:57:22,800
played this video and he said

3432
01:57:27,830 --> 01:57:26,239
it was the alien autopsy he said it was

3433
01:57:29,910 --> 01:57:27,840
the same film

3434
01:57:32,550 --> 01:57:29,920
except the only difference was that

3435
01:57:34,629 --> 01:57:32,560
there was a live being that was crouched

3436
01:57:36,470 --> 01:57:34,639
on the floor now this is a high-level

3437
01:57:37,430 --> 01:57:36,480
guy who filmed for the for the for the

3438
01:57:38,870 --> 01:57:37,440
queen

3439
01:57:40,390 --> 01:57:38,880
he's a high level guy when you're

3440
01:57:42,470 --> 01:57:40,400
telling the story and you start to

3441
01:57:44,790 --> 01:57:42,480
realize like yeah this may be this may

3442
01:57:46,790 --> 01:57:44,800
be real i just go back to kit green kit

3443
01:57:48,310 --> 01:57:46,800
green is the impeccable source there's

3444
01:57:49,589 --> 01:57:48,320
no other way you can describe this guy

3445
01:57:51,270 --> 01:57:49,599
and there's other stuff that's leaked i

3446
01:57:53,750 --> 01:57:51,280
don't know if you've heard the video the

3447
01:57:55,430 --> 01:57:53,760
audio there was an audio that leaked um

3448
01:57:57,510 --> 01:57:55,440
and kit doesn't fool around i mean he

3449
01:58:00,070 --> 01:57:57,520
doesn't you know play games there was an

3450
01:58:02,629 --> 01:58:00,080
audio that was leaked with a woman who

3451
01:58:04,470 --> 01:58:02,639
is an intuitive that

3452
01:58:05,910 --> 01:58:04,480
they're they're doing this this whole

3453
01:58:08,229 --> 01:58:05,920
thing with experiencers you know they're

3454
01:58:10,790 --> 01:58:08,239
doing the dna and all that kind of stuff

3455
01:58:13,189 --> 01:58:10,800
with nolan and kit green and this audio

3456
01:58:15,109 --> 01:58:13,199
leaked out and i got a copy of this

3457
01:58:16,790 --> 01:58:15,119
audio and i told john burroughs and he

3458
01:58:19,030 --> 01:58:16,800
said nah i know kit green didn't do this

3459
01:58:21,350 --> 01:58:19,040
thing and it's a 45 minute audio of kit

3460
01:58:23,430 --> 01:58:21,360
green uh talking to this intuitive i

3461
01:58:24,950 --> 01:58:23,440
mean this is like off the wall stuff i

3462
01:58:26,790 --> 01:58:24,960
mean just and and she's talking about a

3463
01:58:28,870 --> 01:58:26,800
portal off the coast of california and

3464
01:58:30,470 --> 01:58:28,880
he's going to stop stop okay and he

3465
01:58:31,830 --> 01:58:30,480
asked her next question stop and he's

3466
01:58:34,390 --> 01:58:31,840
doing this thing and he's talking to her

3467
01:58:36,629 --> 01:58:34,400
like it's completely on board it's

3468
01:58:38,790 --> 01:58:36,639
whatever and i'm going like wow so john

3469
01:58:40,950 --> 01:58:38,800
burroughs gets it and he says that's

3470
01:58:42,709 --> 01:58:40,960
that's that's kid green's voice and he

3471
01:58:44,550 --> 01:58:42,719
contacts kit green right away and the

3472
01:58:46,229 --> 01:58:44,560
impeccable source says

3473
01:58:48,390 --> 01:58:46,239
it's kind of a difficult situation the

3474
01:58:50,229 --> 01:58:48,400
client like leaked the tape

3475
01:58:51,589 --> 01:58:50,239
i can't talk legally i can't talk about

3476
01:58:52,870 --> 01:58:51,599
it so he's not the type of guy that's

3477
01:58:55,270 --> 01:58:52,880
going to throw you disinformation

3478
01:58:57,270 --> 01:58:55,280
whatever he's going to stand his ground

3479
01:58:59,750 --> 01:58:57,280
kit green is if it were anybody else but

3480
01:59:01,589 --> 01:58:59,760
kit green that's where that thing when r

3481
01:59:02,709 --> 01:59:01,599
when you interviewed richard and that's

3482
01:59:04,550 --> 01:59:02,719
what richard was told it's the

3483
01:59:07,350 --> 01:59:04,560
impeccable source as soon as i saw the

3484
01:59:09,990 --> 01:59:07,360
alien autopsy document i went oh that's

3485
01:59:12,310 --> 01:59:10,000
the same thing it's kit green that's why

3486
01:59:14,470 --> 01:59:12,320
they know the avery no there's at least

3487
01:59:16,709 --> 01:59:14,480
one alien because kit green said there

3488
01:59:18,470 --> 01:59:16,719
was one and now kit green is saying the

3489
01:59:19,910 --> 01:59:18,480
three briefings no i yeah i got the

3490
01:59:21,750 --> 01:59:19,920
three briefings they told me this alien

3491
01:59:23,270 --> 01:59:21,760
autopsy thing was real but they lied to

3492
01:59:28,070 --> 01:59:23,280
me that's that's how it's gone but he

3493
01:59:33,589 --> 01:59:30,709
i i have issues with that

3494
01:59:34,550 --> 01:59:33,599
i i do um i

3495
01:59:40,950 --> 01:59:34,560
i

3496
01:59:43,910 --> 01:59:40,960
uh the documentary that uh that came out

3497
01:59:45,270 --> 01:59:43,920
uh and also the the movie that was made

3498
01:59:48,629 --> 01:59:45,280
too as well

3499
01:59:50,709 --> 01:59:48,639
uh about how they they

3500
01:59:53,990 --> 01:59:50,719
they made the documentary or they made

3501
01:59:55,830 --> 01:59:54,000
the alien autopsy film uh because the

3502
01:59:57,109 --> 01:59:55,840
original hire someone to come up with a

3503
01:59:58,790 --> 01:59:57,119
with a counter intelligence star you

3504
02:00:00,149 --> 01:59:58,800
throw in a new story you pay these guys

3505
02:00:01,990 --> 02:00:00,159
and you say okay go in there like i mean

3506
02:00:03,990 --> 02:00:02,000
do they have actual outtakes from the

3507
02:00:05,589 --> 02:00:04,000
from the film they it's like oh they

3508
02:00:07,189 --> 02:00:05,599
lost the drawings or there's all these

3509
02:00:08,709 --> 02:00:07,199
weird things right like where's the

3510
02:00:10,629 --> 02:00:08,719
outtakes where's the film you must have

3511
02:00:12,870 --> 02:00:10,639
piles of film that you did or building

3512
02:00:15,189 --> 02:00:12,880
the the the being or whatever and then

3513
02:00:17,189 --> 02:00:15,199
you got a philip mantle has now come out

3514
02:00:18,470 --> 02:00:17,199
and i can't say exactly what he's saying

3515
02:00:20,790 --> 02:00:18,480
but he's backing the document he's

3516
02:00:22,790 --> 02:00:20,800
basically saying i was involved i you

3517
02:00:25,350 --> 02:00:22,800
know and and so

3518
02:00:27,030 --> 02:00:25,360
the stuff is starting to to mount

3519
02:00:28,390 --> 02:00:27,040
uh but

3520
02:00:30,870 --> 02:00:28,400
you know i i could see where you're

3521
02:00:33,109 --> 02:00:30,880
coming from because that's the uh

3522
02:00:35,030 --> 02:00:33,119
that's what everybody seemed to believe

3523
02:00:37,109 --> 02:00:35,040
was this idea and yet you've got uh

3524
02:00:38,870 --> 02:00:37,119
santilli who said there was actually a

3525
02:00:40,629 --> 02:00:38,880
film so you've got another story there

3526
02:00:42,070 --> 02:00:40,639
was actually a film and i just had clips

3527
02:00:44,149 --> 02:00:42,080
and that's how they did the hoax by

3528
02:00:45,750 --> 02:00:44,159
looking at the actual uh

3529
02:00:47,030 --> 02:00:45,760
video so you have all these different

3530
02:00:48,709 --> 02:00:47,040
stories and that's classic

3531
02:00:50,149 --> 02:00:48,719
counterintelligence all you do is you

3532
02:00:51,910 --> 02:00:50,159
throw mud in the water you don't kill

3533
02:00:53,990 --> 02:00:51,920
people you just have three different

3534
02:00:56,070 --> 02:00:54,000
stories going at the same time so nobody

3535
02:00:57,510 --> 02:00:56,080
knows who to believe or what to believe

3536
02:00:59,910 --> 02:00:57,520
and the story is getting out that we've

3537
02:01:01,510 --> 02:00:59,920
got an alien and you can't confirm it

3538
02:01:03,510 --> 02:01:01,520
everybody thinks it's a crazy story same

3539
02:01:05,990 --> 02:01:03,520
as the bubble is our thing bob lazar was

3540
02:01:07,750 --> 02:01:06,000
only on the base for like five days they

3541
02:01:09,669 --> 02:01:07,760
took him on the base they let him read

3542
02:01:11,109 --> 02:01:09,679
125 documents the second day he's on

3543
02:01:12,629 --> 02:01:11,119
there and they know he's going to go to

3544
02:01:13,990 --> 02:01:12,639
john lear the first question in the

3545
02:01:15,750 --> 02:01:14,000
second interview was what's your

3546
02:01:17,350 --> 02:01:15,760
relationship to john lear and what do

3547
02:01:18,550 --> 02:01:17,360
you think about him they knew before he

3548
02:01:20,310 --> 02:01:18,560
went on the basis he was friends with

3549
02:01:22,550 --> 02:01:20,320
john lear john lear was mr crazy guy in

3550
02:01:24,149 --> 02:01:22,560
the 1980s doing the underground base and

3551
02:01:25,589 --> 02:01:24,159
the shootout and all that kind of stuff

3552
02:01:27,109 --> 02:01:25,599
and they wanted john lear to carry the

3553
02:01:29,510 --> 02:01:27,119
story because nobody would believe the

3554
02:01:31,189 --> 02:01:29,520
story and then what happens is

3555
02:01:33,109 --> 02:01:31,199
george knapp picks up the story in the

3556
02:01:34,870 --> 02:01:33,119
spring of 1989 and suddenly it goes

3557
02:01:36,070 --> 02:01:34,880
viral they didn't expect george knapp to

3558
02:01:37,669 --> 02:01:36,080
pick up the story it was supposed to be

3559
02:01:39,350 --> 02:01:37,679
john lear telling the story so that's

3560
02:01:40,550 --> 02:01:39,360
how they operate this thing they have

3561
02:01:42,229 --> 02:01:40,560
these stories nobody knows who to

3562
02:01:43,910 --> 02:01:42,239
believe we're all fighting we're all

3563
02:01:45,270 --> 02:01:43,920
accusing each other of hoaxing and this

3564
02:01:47,910 --> 02:01:45,280
is a hoax that's a hoax everything's a

3565
02:01:49,510 --> 02:01:47,920
hoax and and nobody believes it and yet

3566
02:01:51,830 --> 02:01:49,520
they're telling us indirectly they're

3567
02:01:53,270 --> 02:01:51,840
fictionalizing telling us a story of

3568
02:01:54,870 --> 02:01:53,280
what's going on because if they wanted

3569
02:01:56,310 --> 02:01:54,880
to tell us there was an actual alien

3570
02:01:57,830 --> 02:01:56,320
they would just tell us and if they

3571
02:02:00,070 --> 02:01:57,840
didn't want us to know they wouldn't put

3572
02:02:01,589 --> 02:02:00,080
out phony document phony stuff because

3573
02:02:03,109 --> 02:02:01,599
it would have cost some money to produce

3574
02:02:05,750 --> 02:02:03,119
this documentary someone put up some

3575
02:02:08,310 --> 02:02:05,760
money to do that thing if that's a real

3576
02:02:09,669 --> 02:02:08,320
hoaxed uh alien that they would it would

3577
02:02:11,510 --> 02:02:09,679
have cost a few bucks to put that thing

3578
02:02:14,310 --> 02:02:11,520
together well

3579
02:02:17,750 --> 02:02:14,320
it's just that when i've you know i i

3580
02:02:20,390 --> 02:02:17,760
back in 1995 or whenever uh the video

3581
02:02:22,950 --> 02:02:20,400
was released i bought it i ordered it

3582
02:02:24,870 --> 02:02:22,960
and had it delivered to tower records

3583
02:02:26,709 --> 02:02:24,880
went and picked it up went home had a

3584
02:02:27,830 --> 02:02:26,719
viewing party with a bunch of my friends

3585
02:02:29,750 --> 02:02:27,840
couldn't wait

3586
02:02:32,790 --> 02:02:29,760
pop this thing in we're all sitting

3587
02:02:35,109 --> 02:02:32,800
around watching it and all of this you

3588
02:02:37,189 --> 02:02:35,119
could hear the air

3589
02:02:38,310 --> 02:02:37,199
get released from the balloon all of

3590
02:02:39,109 --> 02:02:38,320
this

3591
02:02:42,070 --> 02:02:39,119
knew

3592
02:02:44,870 --> 02:02:42,080
that what we saw was a bunch of bs

3593
02:02:46,629 --> 02:02:44,880
and none of this went well it could it

3594
02:02:49,990 --> 02:02:46,639
could be real no

3595
02:02:53,030 --> 02:02:50,000
we were all bummed out and for kit green

3596
02:02:54,550 --> 02:02:53,040
to look at the same film the same video

3597
02:02:57,430 --> 02:02:54,560
that we're watching and come to the

3598
02:02:59,589 --> 02:02:57,440
conclusion that that was a real autopsy

3599
02:03:01,510 --> 02:02:59,599
i but he didn't see the fit he was in

3600
02:03:03,270 --> 02:03:01,520
the film he was given briefings that

3601
02:03:04,390 --> 02:03:03,280
told that this is for real

3602
02:03:06,470 --> 02:03:04,400
that's the difference he gave three

3603
02:03:08,070 --> 02:03:06,480
different briefings and we're closer to

3604
02:03:10,070 --> 02:03:08,080
it now i mean if we didn't have this

3605
02:03:11,910 --> 02:03:10,080
document we wouldn't have now at least

3606
02:03:13,109 --> 02:03:11,920
you have somebody that if he ever goes

3607
02:03:14,149 --> 02:03:13,119
on the record we're gonna get we're

3608
02:03:15,350 --> 02:03:14,159
going to get you know if they can

3609
02:03:17,430 --> 02:03:15,360
squeeze the truth out of them and get

3610
02:03:20,229 --> 02:03:17,440
them to talk we're closer to the fact

3611
02:03:22,070 --> 02:03:20,239
that that uh all these guys have to say

3612
02:03:23,990 --> 02:03:22,080
did you believe there was a thing did

3613
02:03:25,990 --> 02:03:24,000
you see this document we're at least a

3614
02:03:28,390 --> 02:03:26,000
step closer because there's to me

3615
02:03:30,310 --> 02:03:28,400
there's no doubt that this is just came

3616
02:03:32,629 --> 02:03:30,320
out of mitchell's files why would right

3617
02:03:33,990 --> 02:03:32,639
uh mitchell hoax the document and put it

3618
02:03:35,350 --> 02:03:34,000
in his files for when he died that

3619
02:03:37,750 --> 02:03:35,360
someone would

3620
02:03:40,629 --> 02:03:37,760
you know further complicate the

3621
02:03:42,870 --> 02:03:40,639
the centelli film or whatever

3622
02:03:45,109 --> 02:03:42,880
yeah yeah when i read the document the

3623
02:03:46,790 --> 02:03:45,119
alien autopsy document when i read it i

3624
02:03:50,149 --> 02:03:46,800
started to wonder

3625
02:03:52,950 --> 02:03:50,159
um if kid green is referring to because

3626
02:03:54,790 --> 02:03:52,960
he talks about uh the style uh he talks

3627
02:03:56,390 --> 02:03:54,800
about the body he talks about the the

3628
02:03:59,109 --> 02:03:56,400
the instruments and things

3629
02:04:02,790 --> 02:03:59,119
so i'm i was thinking

3630
02:04:06,229 --> 02:04:02,800
maybe he was watching a different film

3631
02:04:07,990 --> 02:04:06,239
until they mentioned ray santilli and

3632
02:04:09,109 --> 02:04:08,000
that's when i backed up and went wait a

3633
02:04:11,189 --> 02:04:09,119
minute here

3634
02:04:14,550 --> 02:04:11,199
i i don't know i don't know okay uh

3635
02:04:18,229 --> 02:04:14,560
before we run out of time uh

3636
02:04:21,270 --> 02:04:18,239
another important point that was in this

3637
02:04:24,149 --> 02:04:21,280
leaked document was the statement that

3638
02:04:26,470 --> 02:04:24,159
they've been backward engineering but

3639
02:04:28,470 --> 02:04:26,480
it's taking too long

3640
02:04:31,030 --> 02:04:28,480
and and that uh

3641
02:04:33,430 --> 02:04:31,040
is is a very interesting statement and

3642
02:04:35,510 --> 02:04:33,440
but also when we've got skunk works and

3643
02:04:37,109 --> 02:04:35,520
everything else where antigravity and

3644
02:04:39,350 --> 02:04:37,119
and things were

3645
02:04:42,390 --> 02:04:39,360
figured out quite a while ago and they

3646
02:04:44,310 --> 02:04:42,400
mentioned in the document arvs

3647
02:04:46,550 --> 02:04:44,320
so they're building reproduction

3648
02:04:47,990 --> 02:04:46,560
vehicles they're flying those but yet

3649
02:04:50,390 --> 02:04:48,000
they're saying that the backwards

3650
02:04:52,229 --> 02:04:50,400
engineering is taking a long time those

3651
02:04:53,109 --> 02:04:52,239
two statements seem to conflict each

3652
02:04:55,350 --> 02:04:53,119
other

3653
02:04:58,310 --> 02:04:55,360
unless they are talking about certain

3654
02:05:01,189 --> 02:04:58,320
technology is taking longer but they're

3655
02:05:02,629 --> 02:05:01,199
certainly uh flying these craft they

3656
02:05:04,629 --> 02:05:02,639
have the craft and they're building

3657
02:05:07,430 --> 02:05:04,639
reproductions of the craft

3658
02:05:10,149 --> 02:05:07,440
uh what do you make of that uh the it's

3659
02:05:11,350 --> 02:05:10,159
a they contradict each other but maybe

3660
02:05:12,470 --> 02:05:11,360
they're not talking about the same

3661
02:05:14,870 --> 02:05:12,480
things right

3662
02:05:17,589 --> 02:05:14,880
well i mean again you had eric davis

3663
02:05:19,510 --> 02:05:17,599
publicly saying that they shut down the

3664
02:05:20,550 --> 02:05:19,520
crash officer program in 1989 because

3665
02:05:22,950 --> 02:05:20,560
they weren't getting anywhere that's

3666
02:05:24,870 --> 02:05:22,960
public he went public with that

3667
02:05:25,589 --> 02:05:24,880
then i look at look at the whether it's

3668
02:05:28,070 --> 02:05:25,599
the

3669
02:05:30,390 --> 02:05:28,080
douglas documents for example i asked

3670
02:05:31,990 --> 02:05:30,400
bob wood because you had this guy that

3671
02:05:34,390 --> 02:05:32,000
came out and said douglas aircraft had

3672
02:05:37,030 --> 02:05:34,400
these anti-gravity uh ships back in the

3673
02:05:38,229 --> 02:05:37,040
1950s right and and so i went to bob

3674
02:05:40,390 --> 02:05:38,239
wood and i said

3675
02:05:41,910 --> 02:05:40,400
they had in the 1950s and you and

3676
02:05:45,510 --> 02:05:41,920
douglas aircraft spent half a million

3677
02:05:47,189 --> 02:05:45,520
dollars in in 1968 69 and you could you

3678
02:05:48,870 --> 02:05:47,199
couldn't come up with anything and i

3679
02:05:51,830 --> 02:05:48,880
said well if douglas aircraft already

3680
02:05:53,270 --> 02:05:51,840
had all this stuff well then why did

3681
02:05:54,870 --> 02:05:53,280
james douglas spend a half a million

3682
02:05:56,629 --> 02:05:54,880
dollars looking for stuff if he already

3683
02:05:57,430 --> 02:05:56,639
had it and it didn't make any sense and

3684
02:05:58,790 --> 02:05:57,440
he said why didn't you have a high

3685
02:06:00,790 --> 02:05:58,800
enough security clearance saying that

3686
02:06:02,390 --> 02:06:00,800
doesn't make any sense and the more and

3687
02:06:04,149 --> 02:06:02,400
then the same with the johnson documents

3688
02:06:07,270 --> 02:06:04,159
should they really get we're getting and

3689
02:06:09,189 --> 02:06:07,280
i and they i've never leaked the um the

3690
02:06:10,629 --> 02:06:09,199
uh notes from the advanced physics

3691
02:06:12,310 --> 02:06:10,639
theoretical working group i named

3692
02:06:13,910 --> 02:06:12,320
because hell put off of contacting me

3693
02:06:15,910 --> 02:06:13,920
said i understand you've got some names

3694
02:06:17,350 --> 02:06:15,920
of a group that i allegedly was part of

3695
02:06:20,390 --> 02:06:17,360
and i said yeah i got the names i sent

3696
02:06:22,950 --> 02:06:20,400
him like 99 of the names and never heard

3697
02:06:25,510 --> 02:06:22,960
from him again so i in that one and

3698
02:06:26,310 --> 02:06:25,520
these are high-level top-secret sei guys

3699
02:06:28,629 --> 02:06:26,320
and

3700
02:06:30,149 --> 02:06:28,639
i saw the notes 18 pages or 20 pages of

3701
02:06:32,470 --> 02:06:30,159
notes and it didn't appear they knew

3702
02:06:33,990 --> 02:06:32,480
anything was going on so that it may be

3703
02:06:35,830 --> 02:06:34,000
if you look at skinwalker ranch why did

3704
02:06:37,350 --> 02:06:35,840
they go to skinwalker ranch it did they

3705
02:06:38,790 --> 02:06:37,360
didn't appear to have any control over

3706
02:06:41,030 --> 02:06:38,800
what was going on skin rocker ranch

3707
02:06:43,189 --> 02:06:41,040
these three guys with the guns basically

3708
02:06:45,350 --> 02:06:43,199
get shut down and basically told get off

3709
02:06:46,149 --> 02:06:45,360
of here and they go home and there's you

3710
02:06:47,669 --> 02:06:46,159
know

3711
02:06:49,109 --> 02:06:47,679
wine bottles flying through the house

3712
02:06:50,790 --> 02:06:49,119
and stuff like that and all these other

3713
02:06:52,069 --> 02:06:50,800
people move out it didn't seem to have

3714
02:06:53,750 --> 02:06:52,079
any control over what was going on skin

3715
02:06:55,189 --> 02:06:53,760
rocker ranch it was always one as john

3716
02:06:56,870 --> 02:06:55,199
said there's always one step ahead of

3717
02:06:59,589 --> 02:06:56,880
them and that happens in all sorts of

3718
02:07:00,950 --> 02:06:59,599
paranormal stuff ghost stuff port stuff

3719
02:07:02,470 --> 02:07:00,960
you never see it it's always one step

3720
02:07:04,950 --> 02:07:02,480
ahead you can't film it

3721
02:07:07,350 --> 02:07:04,960
i think the technology is way i agree

3722
02:07:09,430 --> 02:07:07,360
with john it is way beyond anything we

3723
02:07:11,109 --> 02:07:09,440
have i i'm i get very suspect of the

3724
02:07:13,030 --> 02:07:11,119
stories that we're going to others star

3725
02:07:14,390 --> 02:07:13,040
systems and other planets and stuff i i

3726
02:07:16,470 --> 02:07:14,400
say you know if we had this kind of like

3727
02:07:17,990 --> 02:07:16,480
people said to me in 1975 oh that was

3728
02:07:20,069 --> 02:07:18,000
the american technology and i said well

3729
02:07:21,910 --> 02:07:20,079
if that was american technology i saw on

3730
02:07:23,589 --> 02:07:21,920
this side of the border 25 miles north

3731
02:07:24,629 --> 02:07:23,599
of the border in 1975 you think they

3732
02:07:26,790 --> 02:07:24,639
would have done a little bit better in

3733
02:07:28,870 --> 02:07:26,800
the vietnam war i mean it's like

3734
02:07:31,030 --> 02:07:28,880
i i really have some doubts that we have

3735
02:07:32,950 --> 02:07:31,040
this very advanced technology all the

3736
02:07:36,149 --> 02:07:32,960
and the stuff that i've got like the

3737
02:07:37,270 --> 02:07:36,159
johnson letters the the um the stuff

3738
02:07:39,030 --> 02:07:37,280
from

3739
02:07:41,669 --> 02:07:39,040
john alexander's meetings all that stuff

3740
02:07:43,669 --> 02:07:41,679
nobody's seen i've i've got these notes

3741
02:07:44,870 --> 02:07:43,679
and it doesn't show anything it just

3742
02:07:46,790 --> 02:07:44,880
shows like they're just sort of

3743
02:07:48,229 --> 02:07:46,800
struggling to try to figure this thing

3744
02:07:50,069 --> 02:07:48,239
out that it's way beyond everything

3745
02:07:51,830 --> 02:07:50,079
we've got we may have some little craft

3746
02:07:53,189 --> 02:07:51,840
that we can sort of fly around or

3747
02:07:55,669 --> 02:07:53,199
whatever but

3748
02:07:57,510 --> 02:07:55,679
you know i i don't think we really have

3749
02:07:59,750 --> 02:07:57,520
what people claim they have i mean we

3750
02:08:01,830 --> 02:07:59,760
may but i the more i see and the stuff

3751
02:08:05,270 --> 02:08:01,840
i've seen is not public stuff it's stuff

3752
02:08:07,270 --> 02:08:05,280
that lee was leaked to me that i i

3753
02:08:09,750 --> 02:08:07,280
am pretty sure and and

3754
02:08:12,709 --> 02:08:09,760
linda melinda leslie also has

3755
02:08:14,550 --> 02:08:12,719
uh uh house notes from john alexander's

3756
02:08:16,149 --> 02:08:14,560
and i've compared him i've got both sets

3757
02:08:18,069 --> 02:08:16,159
and it's the same notes so it's not i've

3758
02:08:19,750 --> 02:08:18,079
got hoax notes or anything they're both

3759
02:08:23,030 --> 02:08:19,760
saying the same thing which is basically

3760
02:08:24,550 --> 02:08:23,040
yeah ufos exist but man i mean they just

3761
02:08:26,390 --> 02:08:24,560
walk in circles around us we have no

3762
02:08:30,069 --> 02:08:26,400
idea how to control this thing

3763
02:08:33,350 --> 02:08:30,079
do you think that uh the answers that we

3764
02:08:37,030 --> 02:08:33,360
are seeking are going to come from

3765
02:08:38,870 --> 02:08:37,040
these types of of leaked documents and

3766
02:08:40,870 --> 02:08:38,880
uh you know possibly

3767
02:08:42,629 --> 02:08:40,880
you know some hackers going after some

3768
02:08:44,790 --> 02:08:42,639
computers and pulling some stuff out

3769
02:08:47,830 --> 02:08:44,800
that it's going to come that way and not

3770
02:08:49,510 --> 02:08:47,840
necessarily from the skies or

3771
02:08:51,350 --> 02:08:49,520
or anything else you think it's going to

3772
02:08:53,990 --> 02:08:51,360
continue this way

3773
02:08:56,229 --> 02:08:54,000
well i think these documents do a lot to

3774
02:08:57,350 --> 02:08:56,239
sort of verify the fact that yeah we we

3775
02:08:58,629 --> 02:08:57,360
know because that's the game they're

3776
02:09:00,709 --> 02:08:58,639
playing they're like oh there's a big

3777
02:09:02,709 --> 02:09:00,719
secret we need some money we can't you

3778
02:09:03,990 --> 02:09:02,719
know we we we don't we don't know what's

3779
02:09:04,950 --> 02:09:04,000
going on here and it's like and then

3780
02:09:06,390 --> 02:09:04,960
when i said that's why i saw the

3781
02:09:09,510 --> 02:09:06,400
document i was just furious when i saw

3782
02:09:10,310 --> 02:09:09,520
the mj12 thing i go like oh my goodness

3783
02:09:13,910 --> 02:09:10,320
we

3784
02:09:15,270 --> 02:09:13,920
known for 20 years like what are you

3785
02:09:18,550 --> 02:09:15,280
going to wait for 200 years to release

3786
02:09:21,350 --> 02:09:18,560
this you know i that's was my main thing

3787
02:09:22,470 --> 02:09:21,360
was that we understand more than than

3788
02:09:24,390 --> 02:09:22,480
than

3789
02:09:26,629 --> 02:09:24,400
i i thought we did

3790
02:09:28,470 --> 02:09:26,639
but um

3791
02:09:30,870 --> 02:09:28,480
i mean it's a it's a difficult thing i

3792
02:09:32,629 --> 02:09:30,880
mean we we're we're moving along i think

3793
02:09:34,310 --> 02:09:32,639
the the beings are giving us a lot of

3794
02:09:35,750 --> 02:09:34,320
answers that's where i'm working

3795
02:09:37,350 --> 02:09:35,760
they're they're giving us a lot of stuff

3796
02:09:39,430 --> 02:09:37,360
there's people getting downloads 42

3797
02:09:41,030 --> 02:09:39,440
percent of all people have mathematical

3798
02:09:43,750 --> 02:09:41,040
scientific or technical material i had a

3799
02:09:45,270 --> 02:09:43,760
woman in in la walk up to me and says oh

3800
02:09:48,229 --> 02:09:45,280
look at this shows me her cell phone

3801
02:09:50,470 --> 02:09:48,239
with this mathematical quantum physics

3802
02:09:52,390 --> 02:09:50,480
stuff it's like 25 pages long i said oh

3803
02:09:54,149 --> 02:09:52,400
you got that in a download and she said

3804
02:09:56,069 --> 02:09:54,159
yeah and i said that's pretty cool she's

3805
02:09:57,830 --> 02:09:56,079
i'm a secretary i've never taken science

3806
02:09:59,990 --> 02:09:57,840
and it's like that kind of stuff that

3807
02:10:02,390 --> 02:10:00,000
you know the the the free foundation had

3808
02:10:04,709 --> 02:10:02,400
a physics board they had ja

3809
02:10:07,030 --> 02:10:04,719
edgar mitchell uh rudy shield they had a

3810
02:10:08,229 --> 02:10:07,040
bunch of guys that had all these these

3811
02:10:09,510 --> 02:10:08,239
experiences who were getting these

3812
02:10:11,270 --> 02:10:09,520
mathematical

3813
02:10:12,709 --> 02:10:11,280
physics equations in their head they

3814
02:10:14,709 --> 02:10:12,719
were evaluating all this stuff and

3815
02:10:15,990 --> 02:10:14,719
that's what douglas aircraft did is you

3816
02:10:17,589 --> 02:10:16,000
go to the experiences and they're being

3817
02:10:19,350 --> 02:10:17,599
told what's going on that's when you're

3818
02:10:21,510 --> 02:10:19,360
going to learn what's going on there's

3819
02:10:23,750 --> 02:10:21,520
so much you know sort of garbage and

3820
02:10:25,270 --> 02:10:23,760
counterintelligence and you know double

3821
02:10:27,430 --> 02:10:25,280
stories and stuff that's going to be

3822
02:10:29,109 --> 02:10:27,440
hard for the government i mean this this

3823
02:10:31,270 --> 02:10:29,119
goes a long way these documents but in

3824
02:10:33,430 --> 02:10:31,280
terms of figuring what's going on and i

3825
02:10:34,870 --> 02:10:33,440
say in the end i i will maintain it's

3826
02:10:36,310 --> 02:10:34,880
going to be a lot less physical than

3827
02:10:37,990 --> 02:10:36,320
people think it is and it's going to be

3828
02:10:39,350 --> 02:10:38,000
a lot more spiritual and i think that's

3829
02:10:41,910 --> 02:10:39,360
where i used to think jack valet was

3830
02:10:43,430 --> 02:10:41,920
nuts now i think jack vale is dead on

3831
02:10:44,629 --> 02:10:43,440
where he's saying

3832
02:10:46,229 --> 02:10:44,639
everybody's missing the boat john

3833
02:10:49,109 --> 02:10:46,239
alexander's saying this is going to come

3834
02:10:51,189 --> 02:10:49,119
down to a cog you know a cog

3835
02:10:52,629 --> 02:10:51,199
precognitive sentient phenomena that

3836
02:10:54,310 --> 02:10:52,639
it's all the same thing that's the book

3837
02:10:56,709 --> 02:10:54,320
i'm writing contact modality it's all

3838
02:10:59,750 --> 02:10:56,719
the same thing psychic phenomena remote

3839
02:11:02,149 --> 02:10:59,760
viewing ufos it's all the same thing

3840
02:11:03,910 --> 02:11:02,159
it's a manifestation of the same sort of

3841
02:11:05,350 --> 02:11:03,920
thing that we have the physical world

3842
02:11:06,709 --> 02:11:05,360
wrong we understand we think it's a

3843
02:11:09,109 --> 02:11:06,719
physical world we think everything's

3844
02:11:12,149 --> 02:11:09,119
separated and we we've got a bunch of

3845
02:11:14,390 --> 02:11:12,159
stuff all messed up and so i think it'd

3846
02:11:16,310 --> 02:11:14,400
be a lot lot less physical than people

3847
02:11:18,390 --> 02:11:16,320
think it is are you sitting on more

3848
02:11:21,030 --> 02:11:18,400
documents

3849
02:11:22,470 --> 02:11:21,040
i have handed michael uh i made this

3850
02:11:23,750 --> 02:11:22,480
mistake and i that's why i warned the

3851
02:11:24,950 --> 02:11:23,760
researchers don't get involved with the

3852
02:11:26,870 --> 02:11:24,960
people that you

3853
02:11:28,550 --> 02:11:26,880
you um

3854
02:11:29,990 --> 02:11:28,560
are investigating

3855
02:11:31,750 --> 02:11:30,000
over the years i've made this mistake

3856
02:11:33,189 --> 02:11:31,760
where people will say okay tell you this

3857
02:11:34,790 --> 02:11:33,199
then at the end of the letter say oh

3858
02:11:36,149 --> 02:11:34,800
don't tell anybody and i've done that

3859
02:11:38,790 --> 02:11:36,159
for years and years and years and so

3860
02:11:41,109 --> 02:11:38,800
i've michael michael hall has this uh

3861
02:11:42,470 --> 02:11:41,119
disclosure trust thing so i filled out a

3862
02:11:44,470 --> 02:11:42,480
disclosure trust when i was at

3863
02:11:46,550 --> 02:11:44,480
consciousness life expo he brought in

3864
02:11:49,510 --> 02:11:46,560
the lawyers we we went through all the

3865
02:11:51,430 --> 02:11:49,520
legal stuff and uh when i die

3866
02:11:53,350 --> 02:11:51,440
uh it'll be a field day next day because

3867
02:11:55,350 --> 02:11:53,360
uh everything that i've been told over

3868
02:11:57,270 --> 02:11:55,360
the years confidential stuff from people

3869
02:11:59,589 --> 02:11:57,280
is going to drop the very next day

3870
02:12:00,629 --> 02:11:59,599
grant cameron

3871
02:12:05,669 --> 02:12:00,639
thank you

3872
02:12:08,149 --> 02:12:05,679
conversation and uh

3873
02:12:09,430 --> 02:12:08,159
this community needs to hear

3874
02:12:11,589 --> 02:12:09,440
this show

3875
02:12:13,990 --> 02:12:11,599
absolutely incredible thank you so much

3876
02:12:16,790 --> 02:12:14,000
and enjoy the rest of your night i i i

3877
02:12:20,310 --> 02:12:16,800
can tell that your mood has changed i

3878
02:12:22,470 --> 02:12:20,320
can tell okay so it's all good man

3879
02:12:24,390 --> 02:12:22,480
you've got plenty of people it's uh it's

3880
02:12:26,149 --> 02:12:24,400
an exciting life i mean i i always say

3881
02:12:28,550 --> 02:12:26,159
this is if you understand what's going

3882
02:12:30,310 --> 02:12:28,560
on and what we're really dealing with

3883
02:12:32,470 --> 02:12:30,320
this is the super bowl of all stories

3884
02:12:33,589 --> 02:12:32,480
and everybody should realize you are in

3885
02:12:35,750 --> 02:12:33,599
the super bowl you're playing in the

3886
02:12:37,910 --> 02:12:35,760
super bowl and you have a role to play i

3887
02:12:39,750 --> 02:12:37,920
i'm i think i try to say thank you three

3888
02:12:42,069 --> 02:12:39,760
times every day that i got to play this

3889
02:12:44,149 --> 02:12:42,079
game well you know you said it you said

3890
02:12:46,870 --> 02:12:44,159
it well uh you've been doing this since

3891
02:12:49,750 --> 02:12:46,880
1975 charlie red star

3892
02:12:52,790 --> 02:12:49,760
and here you are 2019

3893
02:12:54,950 --> 02:12:52,800
finally right well congratulations grant

3894
02:12:57,589 --> 02:12:54,960
enjoy the rest of your night we'll speak

3895
02:12:58,709 --> 02:12:57,599
soon thanks jimmy thank you grant

3896
02:13:01,430 --> 02:12:58,719
cameron

3897
02:13:04,550 --> 02:13:01,440
and now i want to uh direct everybody

3898
02:13:07,030 --> 02:13:04,560
let's not forget you can go straight to

3899
02:13:09,030 --> 02:13:07,040
uh grant's website which is over at

3900
02:13:12,629 --> 02:13:09,040
jimmychurchradio.com

3901
02:13:15,750 --> 02:13:12,639
it is beyond presidential ufos.com the

3902
02:13:18,950 --> 02:13:15,760
links are right there it's got tons of

3903
02:13:19,910 --> 02:13:18,960
information and there is much more to

3904
02:13:21,750 --> 02:13:19,920
come

3905
02:13:23,910 --> 02:13:21,760
with that

3906
02:13:25,109 --> 02:13:23,920
wow what a conversation tonight thank

3907
02:13:27,270 --> 02:13:25,119
you grant

3908
02:13:29,750 --> 02:13:27,280
tomorrow night right here on fade to

3909
02:13:34,069 --> 02:13:29,760
black it's thursday night it is fader

3910
02:13:37,030 --> 02:13:34,079
night with open lines all night long

3911
02:13:39,270 --> 02:13:37,040
and i am looking forward to

3912
02:13:42,629 --> 02:13:39,280
dinner

3913
02:13:45,830 --> 02:13:42,639
at that that that was the conversation

3914
02:13:47,910 --> 02:13:45,840
all i can say is wow

3915
02:13:50,310 --> 02:13:47,920
fade to black's executive producer is

3916
02:13:52,870 --> 02:13:50,320
rita kamarian

3917
02:13:55,510 --> 02:13:52,880
show is produced by

3918
02:13:57,750 --> 02:13:55,520
hill j palm renee dennis and bob

3919
02:13:59,830 --> 02:13:57,760
announcers are steve harder genevatoa

3920
02:14:02,229 --> 02:13:59,840
mark d kovar

3921
02:14:06,390 --> 02:14:02,239
webmaster is drew the geek music doug

3922
02:14:08,629 --> 02:14:06,400
aldrich intro spaceboy spaceboymusic.com

3923
02:14:10,470 --> 02:14:08,639
theta black is produced by kjcr for the

3924
02:14:12,069 --> 02:14:10,480
game changer network and syndication is

3925
02:14:13,750 --> 02:14:12,079
kgra

3926
02:14:16,390 --> 02:14:13,760
the planet those broadcasts own a

3927
02:14:18,470 --> 02:14:16,400
copyrighted 2019 by fade to black in the

3928
02:14:20,950 --> 02:14:18,480
game changer network it cannot be

3929
02:14:23,189 --> 02:14:20,960
re-broadcast downloaded copied or used

3930
02:14:25,030 --> 02:14:23,199
anywhere in the known universe without

3931
02:14:28,149 --> 02:14:25,040
written permission from fade to black or

3932
02:14:30,310 --> 02:14:28,159
the game changer network

3933
02:14:31,830 --> 02:14:30,320
i'm your host jimmy church follow me on

3934
02:14:34,550 --> 02:14:31,840
twitter at j

3935
02:14:38,149 --> 02:14:34,560
church radio you can follow grant on

3936
02:14:40,310 --> 02:14:38,159
twitter at grant cameron until tomorrow

3937
02:14:44,390 --> 02:14:40,320
night fader night open lines all night

3938
02:14:47,640 --> 02:14:44,400
long i want everybody to be safe

3939
02:14:58,520 --> 02:14:47,650
go backly teppy